CAT D3 Project part 2

[AllDodge]

Take lines loose and pull connectors out and put new orings on and slide back in with some oil on them and make sure the holes are clean to the groove

Not that I'm disagreeing and I'm willing to do that, but I cleaned the inside and around them pretty good before the install. I oiled them up prior to installation and they slid in fine. Blew them out with air and could not see through the center (probably a one way type valve) but could see through the tiny hole to one side of the center hole. There is a hole in the outer side of the adapter, I take the hole on the outer side as what lets the fuel out if it leaks inside. The injector has a fitting with an O-ring which would seal off the small hole to one side of the inner hole.

The injectors are new. The adapter has been cleaned. I cleaned the lines but probably not was well as I could have, and I blew them out with air. I'll pull one of the adapters out Friday and take some pics

 

[AllDodge]

None of those D3 starters are great. The Cat unit is by Nippondenso. The rare electric unit is most likely a China built unit but then that's where they are shifting to for sourcing anyway.

Does the starter act like it's hanging up (bad ring gear teeth) or just slow to crank.

Looks like a new/different starter is in the works.

No it doesn't sound like it's hanging up, and the three times I removed the starter prior I saw no damage. Looks like a new starter is in the works

 

[Old Magnet]

If you want to mess with the starter, pull it apart and see if the armature is dragging on the pole shoes. Doesn't always show up on the bench but acts different under load.

 

[AllDodge]

If you want to mess with the starter, pull it apart and see if the armature is dragging on the pole shoes. Doesn't always show up on the bench but acts different under load.

I willing to try anything to keep from sinking more money in the machine, but it's been apart twice by folks that do it all the time and they didn't find anything. Don't know how to tell if it's dragging, can you tell me how to test?

 

[Mobiltech]

If the adapters are leaking fuel into the bleed channel on the rocker box changing the orings won't fix it. It has to be a bad metal to metal seat on a line or adapter. You should be able to tell which ones are leaking. Try loosening the lines and repositioning or remove and look for bad sealing surface.

 

[AllDodge]

If the adapters are leaking fuel into the bleed channel on the rocker box changing the orings won't fix it. It has to be a bad metal to metal seat on a line or adapter. You should be able to tell which ones are leaking. Try loosening the lines and repositioning or remove and look for bad sealing surface.

Will do, thanks I'll give that a try
On previous post we had a hard time getting the new injector lines bent enough to line up and a couple of them didn't fell right when we got them in

 

[Cmark]

The injection lines seal metal-to-metal on the taper. If one of the internal lines start leaking at that point, the fuel escapes out through the groove in the rocker box instead of going into the engine. The O rings on the internal fuel lines only come into play for that scenario. You must have a bad seal on the seat of one or more of your internal lines. Check for rust/dirt/burrs/scratches on the end of the lines and inside the adapters. They won't seal if they're not perfect.

Incidentally, when you install the adapters, the drain hole is supposed to go to the bottom.


Edit. Written at the same time as mobiltech's reply!!

 

[AllDodge]

The injection lines seal metal-to-metal on the taper. If one of the internal lines start leaking at that point, the fuel escapes out through the groove in the rocker box instead of going into the engine. The O rings on the internal fuel lines only come into play for that scenario. You must have a bad seal on the seat of one or more of your internal lines. Check for rust/dirt/burrs/scratches on the end of the lines and inside the adapters. They won't seal if they're not perfect.

Incidentally, when you install the adapters, the drain hole is supposed to go to the bottom.


Edit. Written at the same time as mobiltech's reply!!

Thanks, looks like they will all come back apart

 

[Cmark]

Will do, thanks I'll give that a try
On previous post we had a hard time getting the new injector lines bent enough to line up and a couple of them didn't fell right when we got them in

In my experience you need to get both the internal and external lines lining up with the adapters just right. If you have any spring in the lines pushing on the adapters, they won't sit central in the hole. The vibration will make them wear into the aluminium housing and you'll get leaks.

 

[Old Magnet]

No special test required on the starter. Just look for scuff marks/any sign of rubbing on the armature and the pole shoes.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

Mobils correct the orings are to keep it out of the engine "told ya it had been years" and seems like I remember once having to replace some adapters because they were stopped up or something like that or maybe it was where the lines seat that was the problem just don't remember
saw a starter shop out in the middle of nowhere one time out behind a gas station when I was filling up I heard a god awful howling walked around the corner and old fellow had a 24 volt cat delco up in the vice and he had a long piece of hard wood in a hole in the floor and would lever into the bendix and then engage the starter asked him about it and he said that's how he had been loading them down for years and it allways worked for him had his hands about 2 foot above it on the wood but still looked dangerous to me
edit boy I type slow

 

[AllDodge]

Starter Problem up date and New Question

The new starter arrived today it looks good. The new starter even has an additional bolt on the rear for additional ground cable.



Being a good rebuilder I installed the middle bolt, figuring there will be no issues with the old starter. Previously the bolt was missing and I thought then it would be a real pain to get it out. Well go figure I now need to remove the bolt to get the starter out. I can get a socket to it but with the recess the socket will not fit on. Have wobble extension and universals but no help. Only way I can see is a boxed end wrench from the bottom. The bottom will also be an issue due to the feed through of the hydraulic lines.

Have any suggestions?

 

[AllDodge]

Update on fuel line leak

I found the 2 of the 4 seals on the injector ends were damaged when we installed them. I pulled each injector back out, loosened the fuel line coming out of it which allowed me to move it further to the rear. Basically the line are a bit to long. To fix the issue I straightened the line a bit, this allowed the line to go higher, then bent it a bit back down which shortened the overall distance. Once completed I could stick the adapter all the way in and with a slight two finger pressure, slide the barrel in. Snug everything down, pull the injector back out so I could tighten the top nut going into the injector, then reinstall and complete line connections.

Only thing I did which is giving me cause for maybe concern is I did not pull injectors 1 and 2 back out to tighten the nut after bending the lines in place. The first 2 I did the same bending thing and all fits well, but getting the wrenches on it and torqueing down may not be to the same degree. It's probably OK but just wonder how many FTLB's the nut on the top should be.

 

[Andrew_D]

I know on our 50-series Deere tractors, a special curved 9/16" wrench makes it 10x easier to get the starter out. Try to Google "Deere starter wrench 9/16" and click "images". That will give you lots of ideas of what I'm talking about. Would something like that be able to reach in there? On our 4250, it let's us get at the bolt over the top of the starter.

Andrew

On Edit: On our 4250, it uses a bolt with a 12-point head. With that 6-point head you have there, you may have lots of trouble as you won't be able to flip over a curved wrench to move it that next little bit.....

 

[kshansen]

On Edit: On our 4250, it uses a bolt with a 12-point head. With that 6-point head you have there, you may have lots of trouble as you won't be able to flip over a curved wrench to move it that next little bit.....

I know it won't help getting it out but if you can tell me the size of the bolt I could give you the Cat part number for a 12 point bolt to replace it.

Times like this is when those cheap Harbor Freight tools come in handy, a little heat and they adjust to fit those tight places and if too long easy to trim to length. Not something you would want to do with your Snap-On tools!

 

[Old Magnet]

Changing to 12-pt is a good idea. Parts book indicates #S1588 which is 3/8-16 NC x 1-1/4 Hex head. The Cat equiv 12-pt is a #1T-0720.

Be sure to compare thickness of your starter mounting flange before installing.

 

[AllDodge]

Starter is Out, New One installed, now trying to get it started

I managed to get the bolt out one notch at a time, sure was a rough one. The new starter is more narrow and has plenty of room to use a socket and extension, so going back in was easier. Looking at the two side by side the gear on the new one appears to stay engaged. I can rotate the gear on one direction by hand, the other I cannot, feels like a ratchet mechanism.



She cranks over fairly well now but I have been unable to get it to hit. Could use some help but doing this on my own. I can crank the engine and crack the injection pump lines and they have fuel coming out and no bubbles. Haven't tried it up high on the adapter fittings yet. When cranking it fairly smooth and only see a slight puff out the exhaust. I don't have the muffler on yet, just the pipe. Gave it a short shot of either and it roared up and put out one heck of a lot of black smoke and suet sprayed everywhere.

 

[AllDodge]

Yet another problem

Still have not got it started but I noticed one of the injector lines didn't look quite right so I loosened it up. When I removed the end off the pump a piece of plasric came out in 2 pieces. Go figure now I need another line unless someone knows how it can be repaired ??????

 

[Mobiltech]

Are you sure it was plastic. I think it would be the steel collar off the line. I don't know any cheap fix for that other than line replacement
If you bleed it right at the injector using the hand pump it sure fire up pretty quick.

 

[HATCHEQUIP]

Dodge did you have pump or injecters checked, after seeing the inside of that engine before was just wandering you can take the injecters out and hook them back to the lines just to see if the pump and injector are popping off. Just don't get body or eyes around them lots of pressure coming out so it gets the fine mist and spray pattern when its rite