kshansen
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2012
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- 11,165
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- Central New York, USA
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- Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
looks to be some simple tests, but as always need to follow instructions to the letter.
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CAT 299D won't move
- Thread starter Jeffrey Bandel
- Start date
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
Nige
Senior Member
Back to my suggestion of Deutsch/Cat single wire splices mentioned a couple of pages back - post #42 page 3. If you're going to fix the wiring, fix it once and fix it right.
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
Well I couldn't find anything. There was nothing to repair---no splices and no damage.
Back to the troubleshooting. I am on Test 4 and I just realized my multimeter doesn't read frequency.
Back to the troubleshooting. I am on Test 4 and I just realized my multimeter doesn't read frequency.
kshansen
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2012
- Messages
- 11,165
- Location
- Central New York, USA
- Occupation
- Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
Time to stop at harbor Freight!
https://www.harborfreight.com/11-function-digital-multimeter-with-audible-continuity-61593.html
$23.00 and if you have a coupon might get 20% off and a free flashlight.
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
Got the new meter. On Test #4, I get 461-480hz in neutral. I get 0hz forward and 0hz reverse.
Nige
Senior Member
Rather than frequency you should be measuring duty cycle. From the troubleshooting procedure - "The position sensor is a PWM sensor that operates at a frequency of approximately 500 ± 80 Hz. The duty cycle of the signal will vary. The signal will vary approximately 20% at the joystick in the full rearward position. The signal will vary by approximately 80% at the joystick in the full forward position. When the joystick is in the center position, the duty cycle will be approximately 50%."
Not very well written but basically it's saying that the measured duty cycle of the sensor should vary from 20% with the joystick pulled right back to 80% with it pushed right forward and about 50% when it's in the centre position. The frequency should remain constant throught the whole range of motion of the joystick.
Are you taking the measurements using "spoons" (see attachment) pushed up the back side of the wires into the harness connector to enable the measurements to be taken with all the wiring still connected..?
Not very well written but basically it's saying that the measured duty cycle of the sensor should vary from 20% with the joystick pulled right back to 80% with it pushed right forward and about 50% when it's in the centre position. The frequency should remain constant throught the whole range of motion of the joystick.
Are you taking the measurements using "spoons" (see attachment) pushed up the back side of the wires into the harness connector to enable the measurements to be taken with all the wiring still connected..?
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
On my new meter it has a setting for Hz duty. I inserted the spoons like your attachment shows. When I turn the key on with the joystick in neutral it fluctuated between 461 and 480hz. When I push it forward I get a reading of 0. When I pull it back I get a reading of 0. What am I doing wrong?
Nige
Senior Member
the frequency of a PWM sensor should not change whether it is giving 0% duty cycle or 100%, or anything in between.
To measure duty cycle of a PWM sensor, do the following: -
1. Insert the black and red leads into the back of the connector (good to hear you have to correct spoons for the job)
2. Set the meter to frequency measurement.
3. Press the Hz button until the RH side of the meter display shows "%". This may need more than one press.
4. Pull the joystick all the way back and hold it there. The meter should alternate between a positive measurement of around 20% and a negative measurement of around 80%.
5. Repeat the above with the joystick halfway between full rearwards and neutral. The percentages should change from a +/- of 20/80 to somewhere around 35/65. Then move the joystick to the centre, numbers should change to approx. 50/50, halfway forward to 65/35, and full forward to 80/20. Remember that all the percentage numbers are approximate.
The above works on my Fluke 87 meter, not sure about yours. Here's a link to the Fluke instructions.
https://www.fluke.com/en/learn/best...-measure-duty-cycle-with-a-digital-multimeter
To measure duty cycle of a PWM sensor, do the following: -
1. Insert the black and red leads into the back of the connector (good to hear you have to correct spoons for the job)
2. Set the meter to frequency measurement.
3. Press the Hz button until the RH side of the meter display shows "%". This may need more than one press.
4. Pull the joystick all the way back and hold it there. The meter should alternate between a positive measurement of around 20% and a negative measurement of around 80%.
5. Repeat the above with the joystick halfway between full rearwards and neutral. The percentages should change from a +/- of 20/80 to somewhere around 35/65. Then move the joystick to the centre, numbers should change to approx. 50/50, halfway forward to 65/35, and full forward to 80/20. Remember that all the percentage numbers are approximate.
The above works on my Fluke 87 meter, not sure about yours. Here's a link to the Fluke instructions.
https://www.fluke.com/en/learn/best...-measure-duty-cycle-with-a-digital-multimeter
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
Great. Thanks a bunch. I'll go to the farm this morning and try it.
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
Nige
Senior Member
Based on what you get it appears as though the position sensor is bad. The bad news is that to replace the senslr requires replacement of the complete LH joystick assembly - that is not going to be cheap. A complete new joystick assembly will be around $850, even the base alone (which contains the position sensor) is about $650.
TBH before going to that level of expense I would have the duty cycle test run again using a different DMM, if I was doing it with my own DMM I'd be 100% confident of the results having done the same tests before on other machines. In your case using a brand-new DMM with no previous history of doing these measurements I'd want more confidence that what I was planning to replace was actually the problem.
TBH before going to that level of expense I would have the duty cycle test run again using a different DMM, if I was doing it with my own DMM I'd be 100% confident of the results having done the same tests before on other machines. In your case using a brand-new DMM with no previous history of doing these measurements I'd want more confidence that what I was planning to replace was actually the problem.
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
That makes sense and I'll try another DMM first.
I found part #4605345 on the Cat sight but I can't find a price for it.
I found 272-1790 CONTROL GP-HANDLE for $446.34
I found 456-0168 BASE AS for $649.10.
Do you think it is possible to break it down and repair it?
I found part #4605345 on the Cat sight but I can't find a price for it.
I found 272-1790 CONTROL GP-HANDLE for $446.34
I found 456-0168 BASE AS for $649.10.
Do you think it is possible to break it down and repair it?
Nige
Senior Member
The 4605345 is the complete joystick - $850 in round numbers
The 4560168 base contains the sensor. I found a very similar price to the one you found.
The problem you have is that even if you get the base apart and can reach the position sensor, it's not available as a separate spare part in any location that I can see. I think I'd confirm that the sensor is actually goofed before starting to tear into the base.
The 4560168 base contains the sensor. I found a very similar price to the one you found.
The problem you have is that even if you get the base apart and can reach the position sensor, it's not available as a separate spare part in any location that I can see. I think I'd confirm that the sensor is actually goofed before starting to tear into the base.
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
I tried a new DMM and got the same result.
Nige
Senior Member
The sensor is a PWM type. You can't just jumper one, you'd need an oscilloscope to fudge the signal from the sensor.
Nige
Senior Member
On the duty cycle or on the frequency as well..? If the answer is both I would be reasonably confident that the sensor was bad.
Jeffrey Bandel
Senior Member
Both