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C15 Genset

Discussion in 'Generators/Gensets' started by mante, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    Engine Serial Number JRE07538 does not associate with a machine in SIS
    C15 JRE07538 Arrangement 241-0020
    BUILT DATE 02/04/2008 TEST DATE 06/04/2008, SHIP DATE-unknown
    AS BUILT
    C15 DTI11 OLD-C15 ACERT DIT ATAAC IND11
    MWCODEA - PRIMARY DRIVE
    HP00475 - 475BHP (354BKW) W/O FAN
    PR-5367 475 BHP WOF 2100RPM (B)
    MISINDOE - INDURTRIAL/OEM
    CERTIF5 EPA/CARB TIER3 / EC STAGE 111A
    Parts List does show Air Compressor Group, so the engine could have been installed in a wheel dozer.

    Question to answer: Why did number 6 connecting rod bearings fail? Were Main bearings shells installed upside down? Shutting off oil flow to the #6 connecting rod bearings.

    Regardless if Non-OEM parts were used to rebuild the engine, IF the parts were installed wrong the engine will have a failure.
     
    mante and Simon C like this.
  2. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    241-0020 is an engine arrangement that is used in 2 different applications. It is not, and never has been, a machine engine.

    1. TH35-C151 Petroleum Power Train package. engine Serial Numbers JRE00001-Up.
    2. C15 Industrial Engine Serial Numbers JRE00106-Up

    Power specifications for both the above options are as Stan quoted above. Torque is quoted as 1817 ft lbs @ 1400RPM. The thing that jumps out at me is that the engine is rated @ 2100 RPM maximum but with an external throttle control input to run it at any RPM between Low Idle and 2100. So my question is how have the electronics on it been frigged to make it run at a constant 1800 RPM independent of imposed electrical load to operate a 60-cycle generator set..?
     
    mante likes this.
  3. mante

    mante Active Member

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    I spoke To the guy who incharge to buy the spare parts and he said one Set of connecting rod bearing not OEM... maybe on No 6 was Installed.
     
  4. mante

    mante Active Member

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    There is an original switchable flash file for 50/60 Hz caterpillar for C15.
    Thanks
     
  5. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    If possible remove number 6 and 7 main bearing caps and check if the bearing shells are installed correctly. 2 and 4 bolt connecting rods were used with 3406-C15 engines.

    Software file (flash file) used was for Cat Gen-Set with C15?
    You used the existing Gen-Set electronic control panel and existing wiring? Control panel to ECM 50/60Hz speed control switches etc?
     
  6. mante

    mante Active Member

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    We start doing that ....

    About the flash file yes, it is
    About the ECM and the panle plus the wiring yes the existing ....

    But I set All the data and parameters to the 60 Hz....
    The wiring no need to change ...

    Thanks
     
  7. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    I think the failure was mechanical > #6 connecting rod bearing failure. (NOT ELECTRONIC CONTROL ISSUE) Wrong bearing used or assembly procedure etc.
    Correct Standard rod bearing #2243246
    Connecting Rod #2243245 4-bolts 60mm tapered pin

    ECM flashed for Gen-Set and using the existing electronic control panel +wiring should work okay.

    Nige, using the existing Gen-Set electronics + wiring looms. I do not have access to TMI or Gen-Set original engine serial # / arrangement #. I would like to know if the turbo, exhaust manifold, static timing etc is compatible between the original engine and replacement.
    EDIT: Gen-Set pdf shows 16.1:1 compression ratio / SIS shows 2292863 piston-rod group 18:1 for replacement engine AND GEN-SET Governor type = Caterpillar ADEM control system
    mante, do you have original engine serial # arrangement # and Gen-Set serial number?
    CAT EMCP 4 Series Control (standard)
    EMCP 4 controls including:
    - Run / Auto / Stop Control
    - Speed and Voltage Adjust
    - Engine Cycle Crank
    - 24-volt DC operation
    - Environmental sealed front face
    - Text alarm/event descriptions
    Digital indication for:
    - RPM
    - DC volts
    - Operating hours
    - Oil pressure (psi, kPa or bar)
    - Coolant temperature
    - Volts (L-L & L-N), frequency (Hz)
    ETC / example random from 8ea different 60Hz Export C15 Gen-Sets
    http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/content/Caterpillar/C10059397
    - Amps (per phase & average)
    - ekW, kVA, kVAR, kW-hr, %kW, PF (4.2 only)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    mante likes this.
  8. mante

    mante Active Member

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    Ar No: 241-0020
     
  9. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    The original engine arrangement was #241-0020?
     
    mante likes this.
  10. mante

    mante Active Member

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  11. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    JRE01516.jpg
    Correct compression ratio 16.1:1
    Arrangement #2410020 Serial #JER01516 has air compressor and transmission oil cooler --> OV-1590 PETRO OIL SERVICING
    https://www.powersystemstoday.com/l...75/2006-caterpillar-c15-stationary-generators
    Good Used CAT C15 Industrial Engine 2006 Model – 0 Hours Since In-Frame Overhaul 7211 Original Hours Engine Model: C15 DITA AAAC Engine S/N: JRE01516 Arrangement/CPL #: 241-0020 Test Spec: 0K4921 Performance Spec: DM7707 Engine HP: 540 Engine RPM: 2100 Governor: ADEM Air Cleaner:
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    mante likes this.
  12. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    mante,
    Serial # JRE07538 AR#241-0020
    SIS shows compression ratio 18:1 10R6007 CYL PACK GP or 229-2863
    Cylinder Packs SELD0080-13
    PISTON 241-6123 ROD 224-3245 CYL LINER 197-9322
    PISTON PIN 180-7350
    LONG BLOCK GP 20R0844 / MAX-540HP 2100RPM, ADEM-4
    TORQUE CHECK SPEED 1400RPM / 1601LB-FT
    Checking Rod Bearings SENR9842-9
    DOUBLE CHECK IF 18:1 CR IS CORRECT FOR GEN-SET APPLICATION
     
    mante likes this.
  13. walkerv

    walkerv Senior Member

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    C15 truck engines break the cranks at the last main bearing journal , from what i have researched on that for truck engines it is due to the silicone filled dampers not being changed at 500k miles . Am i correct or is that info i found just from people triing to sell parts
     
  14. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Stan, that engine may be listed in the link as a "stationary generator set" engine but when you look at the detailed description in the link it is described as an Industrial Engine (which is correct), not a generator set engine. There are a total of 27 different C15 engine Serial Number options for generator set use, but engines of JRE-prefix are not included in that list.

    The JRE-prefix C15 engine appears in a different list on SIS as one of seven different S/N prefixes of C15 Industrial Engine.
     
    mante likes this.
  15. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    Nige,
    Yes Sir, that is why I cannot compare parts [piston-compression ratio, exhaust manifold-turbo] without the Gen-Set original engine serial number. OR Gen-Set serial number to identify correct engine assembly-group, arrangement number. Detective story:(

    PowerSystems list has one Gen-Set with JRE serial engine / arrangement 241-0020, but hydraulic-mechanical governor. Additional guessing:confused:

    Most damper related crank breakage occurs @ 1st crank-arm (front of engine). C15s (all engines per manufactures' guidelines) on-highway engines should have the fluid-damper changed @ 500 miles or per manufactures' recommendation. Newer engines are operating at lower rpm with higher torques that create increased vibration amplitude (twisting, springing back and forth).
    crankB.gif
    Copied from the professionals: Implementing sophisticated turbo charging systems, high pressure fuel injection and computer controlled optimized combustion techniques to rigorously reduce nitrogen oxide (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) by raising cylinder mean effective pressure in turn generates greater torsional vibration amplitude at the crankshaft.
    Replacement cost: less than one penny per mile @ $1K-500K = 0.002

    walkerv, to continue your' research start below with the inventor of torsional viscous dampers
    http://blog.vibratechtvd.com/blog/an-early-history-of-the-torsional-viscous-damper
    How does it work
    http://blog.vibratechtvd.com/blog/how-does-a-viscous-damper-work
    Viscous Dampers: Evolving To Meet New Needs & Applications
    http://info.vibratechtvd.com/viscous-dampers-new-needs-and-applications
    Enjoy the weekend
     
    mante and walkerv like this.
  16. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    StanRus, I think you have a typo in that last post!
    "on-highway engines should have the fluid-damper changed @ 500 miles or per manufactures' recommendation."

    I'm thinking you meant to type "500K miles"? Or one would be stocking a pallet of dampers on each truck!
     
    walkerv likes this.
  17. Nige

    Nige Senior Member

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    Agree 100%. Maybe the best way to attack this is to get the generator Serial Number. If the complete unit was kosher from the get-go (as opposed to being home-brewed) then a generator Serial Number would lead to the original engine S/N and arrangement #.

    So far what we can say without fear of contradiction is that the replacement engine is not from a wheel dozer. It got me thinking a bit - C15 Wheel Dozer engines are equipped with a compression brake. Not much use for one of those on a gen set..........
     
  18. mante

    mante Active Member

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    Hi all,

    This No Can help *CAT00000JC5L00792*
     
  19. mante

    mante Active Member

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    Can i get the engine family from those Nos you have guys
    Thanks
     
  20. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    mante,
    Working on that
    C15 -- C5L00792
    C15 Generator Set (50Hz) Media Number - SEBP4324-39
    Date Updated - 16/09/2015 [Publication Date 01/09/15]
    287-3361 GENERAL AR-GENSET
    S/N C5L1-UP
    400/550 KVA 50 HERTZ. 0.8 FAN RATIO
    286-4914 ENGINE ARRANGEMENT COMPLETE
    S/N FFH218-UP; FTH1-UP
    PART OF 287-3361, 329-2993 GENERAL AR-GENSET
    287-3363* GENERAL AR-GENSET
    S/N C5L1-UP
    350/550 EKW 60 HERTZ @ 1800 RPM. 0.8 FAN RATIO
    286-4916 ENGINE ARRANGEMENT COMPLETE
    SHORT BLOCK 20R-0769 note: same for both engine arrangements
    ___________________________________________
    284-2777 TURBOCHARGER GP
    S/N FFH1-UP; FTH1-UP, FFJ1-UP; FTJ1-UP
    50 HERTZ
    ALSO AN ATTACHMENTS 01/0/2015 [AS BUILT]
    332-7297 CAMSHAFT / 10R-7157
    ___________________________________________
    252-0652 PISTON & ROD GP
    S/N FFH1-UP; FTH1-UP; FFJ1-UP; FTJ1-UP
    16:1 COMPRESSION RATIO <
    10R-7172 CYLINDER PACK AS
    ___________________________________________
    mante,
    C15 INDUSTRIAL ENGINE Serial JRE07538 per SIS specifications has the wrong pistons-compression ratio @ 18:1. Different Turbocharger Group and Exhaust Manifold Group