Attempting to resurrect Cat 3013C

[DIYDAVE]

Try the wax trick, on the stuck threads. Heat to about 500ºF, with a propane or butane torch, while checking with IR thermometer. shut off torch, and grab a hunk of bees-wax, and place against hot metal, as close as possible, and let the wax wick into joint area (like you would solder a pipe). Also have had good luck with left handed drill bits, though I didn't need to do this, when I pulled the solenoid valve on my perkopiller, a coupla years ago...

Another thing that helps, with the wax trick, is to tighten, just a little, before you try to loosen. Don't know why, but it has, for me...

 

[thepumpguysc]

The wax does work in a lot of situations.. BUT.. it STINKS & SMOKES to hi heaven.. I used to cus that boy in the shop who just loved to use it.!! "Take that sh*t in the other room".!!! I'd yell..
I'd end up walking out of the room for 10 minutes.. then turn a fan on him.. He never did change his ways, ignorant sob..

 

[kshansen]

Try the wax trick, on the stuck threads.

So is that Dave Motorhead DIYDave?

What caught my attention right off was the Corvair manifolds!

And while we are going OT here talking about crazy prices for parts I'm reminded of the Rosco Sweep we had at the quarry. It had a little Cummins B3.3 engine not even sure it is really made by Cummins but it has there name on the tags.

Anywho! The alternator quit working on it so for kicks I contacted the dealer we bought the Rosco from to get a price on a new one. They quoted me $1,200, almost asked if that included the Cummins engine it was mounted on! So next I called the local Cummins dealer. They said $562.00. Then I called D&W Diesel who's home base is only a few miles from us and asked about repairing the failed one and was told parts are not available but they could replaces wit an identical brand new Denso alternator for $275.00!

I realize people need to make a profit buying and selling things but if I can buy one alternator for $275.00 and I know D&W is making a profit, I may know Doug the D of D&W but they are in it to make money. I'm sure Cummins or Rosco can get a better price than me if they even buy ten at a time so why do the need to try raping people so bad?

Got my fingers crossed the OP has some luck getting the rest of that solenoid out.

 

[Birken Vogt]

This engine is not a Cat nor Perkins but a Shibaura with a Perkins fuel filter thrown on it.

It was gave good service in little Ford tractors back in the 1980s.

You are right about Perkins parts prices.

 

[kshansen]

This engine is not a Cat nor Perkins but a Shibaura with a Perkins fuel filter thrown on it.

It was gave good service in little Ford tractors back in the 1980s.

You are right about Perkins parts prices.

Are you referring to the Cat 3013C or the Cummins B3.3? I guess I muddied things up a bit with my mention of the alternator story. But figured we need something to occupy ourselves with while the OP does the work we sent him out to do!

 

[toomanyedwards]

So when (hopefully) I get the sheared off solenoid out of the block I should be able to manually test the pump rack somehow, right? What’s the procedure for that? Also, any tips for installing the new solenoid when I get one other than putting removable loctite on the threads this time?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Re-read post # 12.!!!
DO NOT put loc-tite on the threads.. the washer will take care of any oil leakage..
You just tighten it up w/ a pair of channel-locks.

 

[Birken Vogt]

This engine is not a Cat nor Perkins but a Shibaura with a Perkins fuel filter thrown on it.

It was gave good service in little Ford tractors back in the 1980s.

You are right about Perkins parts prices.

Are you referring to the Cat 3013C or the Cummins B3.3? I guess I muddied things up a bit with my mention of the alternator story. But figured we need something to occupy ourselves with while the OP does the work we sent him out to do!

The 3 cylinder Perkapillar is the Shibaura design one.

The Cummins B3.3 is a strange duck. Nothing like the more common B3.9. I have read it was some kind of joint venture with Komatsu but not sure. It looks very Japanese. I have never seen it under any other label so I don't know where it really came from originally.

 

[DIYDAVE]

The wax does work in a lot of situations.. BUT.. it STINKS & SMOKES to hi heaven.. I used to cus that boy in the shop who just loved to use it.!! "Take that sh*t in the other room".!!! I'd yell..
I'd end up walking out of the room for 10 minutes.. then turn a fan on him.. He never did change his ways, ignorant sob..

That's why I like usin bees wax, er a yankee candle, MMMMMM cinnamon apple! Damn, now I's hungry, agin...

 

[DIYDAVE]

So is that Dave Motorhead DIYDave? Nope, no relation, and my heads bigger...

What caught my attention right off was the Corvair manifolds!

And while we are going OT here talking about crazy prices for parts I'm reminded of the Rosco Sweep we had at the quarry. It had a little Cummins B3.3 engine not even sure it is really made by Cummins but it has there name on the tags.

Anywho! The alternator quit working on it so for kicks I contacted the dealer we bought the Rosco from to get a price on a new one. They quoted me $1,200, almost asked if that included the Cummins engine it was mounted on! So next I called the local Cummins dealer. They said $562.00. Then I called D&W Diesel who's home base is only a few miles from us and asked about repairing the failed one and was told parts are not available but they could replaces wit an identical brand new Denso alternator for $275.00!

I realize people need to make a profit buying and selling things but if I can buy one alternator for $275.00 and I know D&W is making a profit, I may know Doug the D of D&W but they are in it to make money. I'm sure Cummins or Rosco can get a better price than me if they even buy ten at a time so why do the need to try raping people so bad?

Got my fingers crossed the OP has some luck getting the rest of that solenoid out.

 

[toomanyedwards]

@thepumpguysc Thanks! I had missed your pump trouble shooting steps in post #12. I'm looking forward to finding out soon if it was a bad solenoid and/or a bad rack. Definitely don't want a run away when I get this thing started so I've been keeping a small 2x4 handy to strangle it if necessary. Also, there's a fuel cut off on the tank itself.

The new solenoid is on it's way. Anyone have a spec for what this thing should be torqued to when installed? I don't want it to seize in there for the next poor schmuck. Certainly seems like medium (removable) loctite or anti-seize would be a good idea to prevent the new solenoid from seizing to the block like the old one. Why would this not be recommended?

Hoping to get back to the barn to work on this thing sometime this week. Will keep y'all posted. Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Birken Vogt]

I have removed and installed several of these solenoids, it is mysterious that this one is siezed because the thread area is in the theoretically oiled area of the crankcase. The copper seal washer is outside the threads. It is the sort of thing that is so simple you don't usually worry about torque. You have a strange problem here.

 

[toomanyedwards]

This thing’s been sitting for many years neglected in a tractor shed so I’ll count my self lucky if this is the only strange problem it has. I had to remove plenty of mud daubers and cobwebs just to get started working on it.

 

[thepumpguysc]

That rack is definitely gonna be stuck..IMO..
Just take your METRIC tools w/ you next time you go & be prepared to pull the pump..
& just how pray-tell, are you going to "torque" it.?? It was made to be hand tightened..
What was the cost of the sol.??
That thing is a 1 wire solenoid, right?? just remember, it has to ground {-} itself to the block.. so be careful w/ anything you put on the threads.. THATS the elect. flow/path..
Anti-seize has been know to disrupt the grounding path..

 

[kshansen]

Well if you want to get all technically Cat does list a spec! But finger tight and a little touch more would be just as good! What's the worst that could happen? A little seeping of oil?

 

[thepumpguysc]

You ruin everything Hansen.. Lol
I must be getting my helping mixed up..?? I'm helping another guy on another forum w/ a similar problem.. He has a 1 wire set-up.. but still, anybody ever seen a channel-loc grip, torque set-up?? { I know your going to look}
There are some sol. that have a "hex" on the back of'm.. but every time someone uses the hex, the case ends up spinning around.. or the hex turns but the body/threads stay put..
& being "technical" has no place on this site..hahahaha..

 

[Birken Vogt]

The ones I have worked on have the hex right up against the block/pump body so no worry about spinning the solenoid body. I never thought they would build them without the hex. At least that's what I think. I have worked on these on Mitsubishi and Isuzu as well as Perkins (same engine different labels) and Shibaura. I'm pretty sure the Perkins ones all had the hex right next to the threads. Strange.

 

[toomanyedwards]

This one had a hex. I got a wrench on that and then it sheared off. Maybe the last guy really torqued this thing and the copper o ring is stuck to the block and the solenoid. When I pop the washer off *hopefully* extracting what's left of the old solenoid won't be too bad (we'll see). Anyone have a source for a new copper o ring? I'm guessing I'll probably need one when I'm done. New solenoid comes tomorrow and I should be able to make it down to work on this thing again Wednesday evening. The saga continues...

 

[toomanyedwards]

@thepumpguysc New solenoid was $45 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M8Y7YM8). Could have gotten it cheaper, but wanted to make sure it'd arrive before Wednesday. The solenoid's two wire, but point taken that anti-seize could interrupt grounding path for anything grounded to the block. Any idea of likely causes for a stuck rack here? This thing worked before it was left so I'd be surprised if the rack was bent, etc. If I pull the pump, ideally I'd want new seals right? Anyone have an illustration of the internals of the pump? It'd be helpful to see how exactly the rack is supposed to operate. This is the first diesel I've worked on so still learning...

 

[Birken Vogt]

Any copper washer at the auto parts store that even remotely fits should work fine.

You can pull the pump and replace without any seals. There is a gasket on the block that is a selective fit height that controls timing but just leave it on the block and it should be fine.

There is a single rack that is pushed one way or the other by the throttle and governor to control amount of fuel injected, with a tiny cotter key. Lift the pump slightly off its mounting and look inside and it should become obvious how it all works.