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Attempting to resurrect Cat 3013C

Discussion in 'Skid Steers' started by toomanyedwards, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. toomanyedwards

    toomanyedwards Active Member

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    So I need to move the stuck rack to get the pump off...so I can free up he stuck rack. Arg. At least I can pretty definitively say a stuck rack is why the engine wasn’t starting now. The pump only comes up about 1/4 inch and there’s only about 1/8 inch at best clearance on the side. I sprayed come carb cleaner in where I could but doubt that will do much. I also installed the new solenoid in (low) hopes that operating that a few times would knock the rack free. Of course it didn’t. Definitely going to need to get creative here. I’m done for the night. Hopefully get back to the barn this weekend to get back on it. @DIYDAVE thanks for the idea. Best thing I can think of so far. Anyone else have ideas here?

    When/if I get this thing out sounds like maybe Chem-dip bath would be a good idea for it, right? Definitely, did the trick cleaning things up when I rebuilt the carb on my old bike.

    Thanks again everyone for all the help. I’m trying to get this running again for my dad. He’s a tough SOB who just turned 80 and has been uses a rinky dink riding mower to mow several acres in the Texas heat. The Super Z is an industrial beast with a 72” deck so if I get it running will definitely make that go much faster for him and give him a kick.
     
  2. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Woah dragon.. don't cut a slot..
    Use the nuts that came off of the studs, double nut them, tighten the nuts up onto one another & use the bottom nut to "unscrew the stud"..
    I don't know if the studs are your problem but you dam sure don't wanna be cutting anything..
    Sorry Dave..
    I just watched the vid again.. Dave is probably right.. REMOVE the studs.. that'll give you some hope..
    DONT FORGET to take the solenoid back out before you try to raise the pump.!!!
    Good luck.. you'll get it..
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  3. DIYDAVE

    DIYDAVE Senior Member

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    TPG, just for your info, cutting the slot was done as a easy way, for removal, dang studs was too short, on mine to even use a double lock nut, half as thick as a normal nut. After I pulled the studs, I replaced with new, slightly longer studs. IIRR, I was able to push the pump toward the motor enough, to feel the slot, and jiggle upwards, to remove the rack hairpin. Once the studs are out, be careful not to bend up the shim plate, as it will float, loose, on the pump body...
     
  4. toomanyedwards

    toomanyedwards Active Member

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    Ok. Got the fuel pump out. Rack is definitely stuck as show below. There is a very slight amount of shimmy that makes me think it’s not stuck on old fuel, but a solid physical component, but just guessing. The engine worked fine last time it was started (years ago) so I’d be surprised if the rack is bent, but I guess stranger things happen. Figuring out how to proceed next.

     
  5. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    I would drop the whole thing in a pail of acetone and come back in a couple days and see if it frees up then.
     
  6. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    You could "TAP" the end of the rack to see if it'll move.. just don't smash it and be careful not to mushroom the end.. the metal is SOFT..
     
  7. toomanyedwards

    toomanyedwards Active Member

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    Planning to leave the pump submerged in cleaner for a bit. Not the external painted parts of course. Are there any rubber/plastic components/seals in the pump
    that Id need to remove before I dip this thing?
     
  8. toomanyedwards

    toomanyedwards Active Member

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    I tried *lightly* tapping the rack, but that didn’t free it. In video below you can see that I can move it slightly but it sounds and feels like it’s hitting something rather than just being gummed up. Also, should I expect the “pistons” on the bottom of the pump to normally be extended? I’d expect them to normally be sprung to be extended (pushed down out of the pump housing a bit) so the engine cams would push them up as the rotate, but just a guess. They aren’t moving very freely either. If I grab the bearing I can pull them down but get some resistance. Hopefully a good carb clean did will improve that.

     
  9. toomanyedwards

    toomanyedwards Active Member

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    Ok. After some research I think I better understand the rack operation better now. The rack engages and rotates plungers that have a ring gear. So what I’m seeing is not that the rack itself is stuck at this point but likely one or more of plungers which explains the behavior I’m seeing. So, a good carb cleaner immersion and then carefully manipulating the rack has at least chance of working with one danger of hitting the rack too hard being risking damaging teeth on the plunger and/or rack. Also, a better term for the “pistons” I mentioned above is “cam follower”. I’m still surprised these don’t seem to be sprung, but maybe they’re just stuck. Anyone have a parts diagram of this specific pump?
     
  10. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Your almost home.. your understanding much more now.. Looking at the vid, I see 2 of the PUMPING PLUNGERS are stuck UP.. I can tell because the TAPPETS/ ROLLERS are up in the housing..
    The plungers are stuck, which holds/keeps the rack from moving..
    Submerse the WHOLE THING..
    & your correct, there are springs behind the rollers, pushing them DOWN.. but they cant come down because they're hooked to the plungers that are stuck..
    Look at the pump housing BASE/flange.. look to the LEFT of the inlet hole.. see that 5 digit # stamped into the base?? That's a manuf. CODE for the inj. pump assy #.. Post it..
     
  11. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Looking at it again, the # may be elsewhere.. just look around the mounting base..
    The 2 digit in the #.. will be the # of cylinders you have..
     
  12. Birken Vogt

    Birken Vogt Charter Member

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    I did not notice the plungers stuck up. That thing must be really gummed up. Those springs are pretty strong.
     
  13. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    That's why I'm a "MASTER" Inj. Pump Rebuilder.. Lol
    Those little sucker ARE strong.. its amazing how many I see that are broken tho..
    The stroke on'm is so small that you'd think its a bad heat treat of something..??
     
  14. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    Yes Master.png

    We hear and will obey!
    Right, Toomanyedwards?
     
  15. toomanyedwards

    toomanyedwards Active Member

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    Hah! Definitely! I'm hoping the master will be able to help me get out of this literal jam. ;-) So an overnight carb cleaner dip didn't help. I then got a cheapo ultrasonic cleaner and tried that but that also didn't help. Only effect is the paint has started peeling (as expected) so I'm just going to strip it all off. I got the pump number off the body and found the following schematic. I Removed the cam followers from the bottom of the pump and the fittings from the top to get a better look at what's jammed. What's stuck in each cylinder starts at part 5 on the top to part 52 on the bottom. I'm thinking maybe I can try gently tapping, pulling and/or spinning part 52 and see if I can free up the springs. If that works then I'd think it'd be easier to free up the other parts hopefully. Also, if I do get part 52 loose, looks like I should be prepared for a spring to possibly fly out.

    Does this make sense as a next step? Any other ideas here?




    6DBAFCBB-350A-4493-ADB8-B7CBE8C4CC2B.png

    IMG_2428.JPG

    IMG_2434.PNG
     
  16. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Just push/TAP down THE CENTER of #5 w/ lots of penetrating oil.. & a SOFT brass drift..
    THAT PART IS 2 pieces.. an outer body called the barrel & the inner called the plunger.. TAP down the center{plunger}
    ALL the parts in those pumps are MATED so keep each cylinder separate..
    PAY ATTENTION to which way the cut out is on # 5. if you put it back the opposite way, it wont pump in the run position.. it'll pump in the shut off tho..
    NORMALLY I wouldn't help anyone who" had the nerve" to take one of my pumps apart.!! Lol
    1 thing to watch out for.. & its VERY IMPORTANT.. IF the "barrel" comes up.. the piece the plunger#5 is riding in.. YOU HAVE TO find the pin that centers it.. theres a slot on the barrel that it rides in..
    SOMETIMES the pin "is made into" #30.. SOMETIMES its NOT & it falls out.. THEN your fk'd.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  17. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    Or just box the whole friggin mess up & send it to me..
    I'll be quietly awaiting your request for my address.. lol

    I forgot to ask.. how did you get the pump OUT.?? Remove the studs?? pry on the rack??
    I'm tellin YOU.. all MY secrets.. LOL..
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
  18. kshansen

    kshansen Senior Member

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    As much as I have the "I'd rather do it myself dam it!" attitude, considering the outcome of a mistake like smacking something too hard or that little pin falling out I would strongly vote for the box it up and send it on an R&R trip to Sunny South Carolina.

    Hopefully thepumpguysc doesn't have a boat payment coming due so the cost might not be too bad!:D
     
  19. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    hahaha.. nope, no payments here.. EVERYTHING is free & clear.. THATS WHY.. I can keep my costs low..
    I floogled the pump guysc 1 time & saw where someone said, "at those prices, he's either not makin any money or he's cutting corners"..
    I can assure you I'm not cutting any corners.. & I'm not out to make a house{boat} payment.. I'm here TO HELP folks out..
    Have you SEEN the cost of a new pump?? a couple thousand.. Do you have any idea how much it would cost this poor {dumb}b*****d to go to a fuel shop?? about 800.00..
    & here "I sit" GIVING the rebuild information to him.. who's the poor dumb b*****d now?? LOL
    "Sometimes" I wonder why I give the info away?? THEN I remember.. More than likely their gonna find it anyway, {from 1 of my old posts} so I might as well help..
    & IF it gets to much to handle.. I'm just a mailman away..
    I was walking a fella thru one earlier in the week.. I have the pump now.. lol.
    He beat the bajeezus outta the guts w/ a hammer & punch.. Yeah, SURE, send it to me.. lol
     
    toomanyedwards and GregsHD like this.
  20. thepumpguysc

    thepumpguysc Senior Member

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    What I find "amazing" is this is his 22 post & He's posting pictures & throwing up links like some kind of computer wiz..
    & I have a hard time logging in & pushing "post".... hahaha