Attempting to resurrect Cat 3013C

[Birken Vogt]

Just a word of advice to the OP.

I had a similar pump a while back and it was spraying a little bit of fuel out the side while pumping. I bought o-rings for the delivery valves and put them on and it did not fix it. I removed it and sent it to a local shop rather than send it all the way across the country. And while they were competent they were also very busy and it took a long time to get it back. If I had just sent it to TPG in the first place I would have been time and money way ahead.

 

[thepumpguysc]

THAT seems to be the story nowadays.. I KNOW since I left the shop, its an average 3 WEEKS to get a pump back.. & that's for "walk-in's".. Theres NO REASON for that.. except poor time management..
Or the occasional part from Japan..{2 weeks} but that's RARE.
MY biggest problem is "travel time".. 2-3 days here, 2-3 days back.. I keep MOST PARTS IN-STOCK, just to avoid the lag & keep the customer going.. { I eat all that cost of carrying the parts}
99% of the time, if I get a pump on a Monday.. you'll have it back on or before the following Monday.
That's why I like using USPS.. FREE Saturday delivery.. it might seem like a small thing BUT its just 1 more day that I get to help out a customer..
I'm waiting on a parts delivery right now{USPS}.. so I can get to work & have the pump done & ready for the mail on Monday.
To be honest, I have more replaceable parts than the local fuel shop. Lol

 

[Birken Vogt]

THAT seems to be the story nowadays.. I KNOW since I left the shop, its an average 3 WEEKS to get a pump back.. & that's for "walk-in's".. Theres NO REASON for that.. except poor time management..
Or the occasional part from Japan..{2 weeks} but that's RARE.l

And if I'm not mistaken, any good shop should have all the parts for this pump on the shelf normally, there are so many of them out there....

 

[thepumpguysc]

"any good shop"

 

[toomanyedwards]

Latest update:

TPG, I’m pretty sure I’m going to be sending this thing to you in box soon when I break something and/or I put it back together and it doesn’t work. So far, at least I’m making progress thanks to you and everyone else gratiously sharing their experience. I tapped out the plunger as you suggested which went smoothly and was able to get the other pieces out no problem. I plan on doing one cylinder at a time so I’ve got the others for reference for the slot position. Also the key appears to be part of the cylinder so I seem ok so far on that part. Next steps for me are:

1) Finish stripping the paint completely on the pump so I don’t foul anything with paint flecks as I reassemble things.
2) One cylinder at a time, punch out the plunger, disassemble and clean the parts and reinstall and oil. Verify parts move freely as expected
3) When all cylinders are reinstalled verify that the rack now moves freely.
4) Reinstall pump and everything else on engine.
5) Attempt to start
6) Uninstall pump and send it to tpc to fix whatever I did wrong (assuming engine hasn’t exploded). ;-)

* Swear and/or cry during steps as necessary

As to how I got the pump out, there wasn’t enough length left on the studs for me to use the double nut trick so I tried the make a slot trick but the studs were in there so tight that a side of the slot just broke when I tried to back it out vs turning the stud. So I ended up just using vice grips on the studs. Completely mangle the thread on the stud of course, but I’m planning on replacing them with bolts anyway so I can just back them out with a socket if I or someone else needs to take the pump off again.

 

[DIYDAVE]

As much as I have the "I'd rather do it myself dam it!" attitude, considering the outcome of a mistake like smacking something too hard or that little pin falling out I would strongly vote for the box it up and send it on an R&R trip to Sunny South Carolina.

Hopefully thepumpguysc doesn't have a boat payment coming due so the cost might not be too bad!

X2 on what Hansen said. It's gonna be much better to have someone, who has done this before, do the job. That way, there are no such things as flying jesus clips, or assembling wrong.

When I had mine done, On my ASV RC 30, nothing was locked up, just a leaky top gasket. I took it to a local diesel injection shop, and their fee was just over $300. Their estimate was $100/hole, and when I got it back, in about a week, I had piece of mind, and none of my dirt, in the pump...

 

[DIYDAVE]

Just a word of advice to the OP.

I had a similar pump a while back and it was spraying a little bit of fuel out the side while pumping. I bought o-rings for the delivery valves and put them on and it did not fix it. I removed it and sent it to a local shop rather than send it all the way across the country. And while they were competent they were also very busy and it took a long time to get it back. If I had just sent it to TPG in the first place I would have been time and money way ahead.

WOW!! I feel so good that my local shop got mine done, so quick! If anyone, in the MD area wants a local shop, that keeps its promises, I'll be happy, to pass on the name, if it ain't stepping on TPG's toes. He certainly needs any support we can five him, just fer answerin all of our dumb questions!

 

[thepumpguysc]

1 more thing & then I'm done.. INSIDE the tappet is a timing shim.. don't loose it & keep it with THAT cylinder..
Daves shop can answer the rest..

 

[toomanyedwards]

I GOT HER RUNNING!!! A sincere thank you to everyone who stuck with me on this one here. A very special thanks to kshansen and thepumpguysc. Definitely couldn't have done it without you guys!

The very last issue I had was I couldn't get it reprimed after replacing the fuel filter. This thing has an engine driven transfer pump and the batteries were dying before it was getting anywhere close to primed. I noticed there was a leak at the fuel filter, but couldn't tell where. This has a canister type fuel filter. To get a closer look I removed the bracket that mounts the fuel filter to the block. Then I was able to turn the filter upside down and it was obvious that the top o-ring on the filter was mis-aligned. I fixed that and also installed an inline manual bulb type primer pump so I wouldn't have to worry about the batteries draining again before the transfer pump got the thing primed. After all of that she started right up and sounds great:

A few last questions, are there any advantages/disadvantages to the different fuel filter types (canister, screw-on, or element)? I'm considering converting this to use a screw on fuel filter since that'd just be one seal vs the three on the current canister type it has now.

Lastly, any tips on prepping this engine for storage (over winter) in the future so I hopefully I won't have to struggle with all this again?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Birken Vogt]

I found the part to convert them, have not done one yet though.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/cav-cartridge-spin-on-conversion.68416/#post-757554

Is that what you needed?

For this style filter?

https://www.autoelectricalspares.co.uk/fuel-filter-housing-replaces-cav-5836b320-2516-p.asp

 

[thepumpguysc]

Thank YOU for stickin with it.!!! I hate it when everyone tries their hardest to help someone out & everybodys doing their darndest EXCEPT the guy who posted.. CONGRATS..
As far as the filters go.. its THE FLOW that u need to spec out.. TO BIG a filter & the lift pump cant push/pull the fuel thru & still have enough pressure for the injection pump to use..
PRESSURE AT THE INJ. PUMP INLET is what you NEED.. I think that one needs no more than 10psi.
As far as storing.. get a GOOD lubrication additive WITH an algaecide.. & depending how long its gonna be stationary, maybe a fuel stabilizer FOR diesel.. diesel fuel only lasts about a month, then "starts" to separate & varnish..
Schaeffer additives are arguably the best in the market.. Lucas & Stanadyne are ok AND they MAKE injection pumps..

 

[colson04]

Thank YOU for stickin with it.!!! I hate it when everyone tries their hardest to help someone out & everybodys doing their darndest EXCEPT the guy who posted.. CONGRATS..
As far as the filters go.. its THE FLOW that u need to spec out.. TO BIG a filter & the lift pump cant push/pull the fuel thru & still have enough pressure for the injection pump to use..
PRESSURE AT THE INJ. PUMP INLET is what you NEED.. I think that one needs no more than 10psi.
As far as storing.. get a GOOD lubrication additive WITH an algaecide.. & depending how long its gonna be stationary, maybe a fuel stabilizer FOR diesel.. diesel fuel only lasts about a month, then "starts" to separate & varnish..
Schaeffer additives are arguably the best in the market.. Lucas & Stanadyne are ok AND they MAKE injection pumps..

I've heard great things about Schaeffer before too.

I had not heard about diesel fuel storage issues like that though. I know gas will varnish horribly if left to sit. We have several tractors at the farm that get used for a short season, and then are regularly left to sit until next year without any storage considerations. The worst we've had to deal with that I can remember are some dead batteries and maybe a flat tire. One tractor routinely gets new filters, but we know the tank has junk in it that has not been addressed. None of the rest have filter issues.

 

[toomanyedwards]

I found the part to convert them, have not done one yet though.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/cav-cartridge-spin-on-conversion.68416/#post-757554

Is that what you needed?

For this style filter?

https://www.autoelectricalspares.co.uk/fuel-filter-housing-replaces-cav-5836b320-2516-p.asp

Hadn't thought about an adapter (didn't know they were available). My plan was to just replace the entire filter mount. This is the filter type that it currently has. It's somewhat a PITA to install on my machine as I have access to the engine from the top and I can't see the top seal on the filter when I install it without removing the filter mount from the block. That's why the top seal was misaligned the first time I installed the new filter, but didn't realize it. Not the end of the world to have this type of filter, but am definitely a fan of fewer points of failure (fewer seals).



Looks like I could replace the current mount with something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/WVO-BIO-Di...949-Fuel-Filter-Water-Separator-/221670522840 I don't have a water separator on this thing now (that I aware of) so if I put in a mount like this my my thinking is it could potentially be a double upgrade as I'd be able to use spin on filters *and* get water separation (if I use a water separating filter). Just thinking about it right now and have plenty more work to do getting my machine fully running again before I do this upgrade.

Now that I have the engine running, the next thing I was going to work on is the hydraulics. This is an industrial zero turn radius mower with hydraulic transmission and electric clutch for the blades. The hydraulics were working last time it ran 5 years ago, but not sure how they're doing now. I didn't see any obvious hydraulic leaks when I started the engine this time, but wasn't really looking yet so we'll see. More adventures...

 

[kshansen]

Glad to hear it running again, too often someone will go on a site get all kinds of help and then never let anyone know if it worked or not.

As soon as you get the hydraulics working I'll send you the coordinates to my property so you can give it a good test run, aout 8 acres of mowing should be a good test run. You can do it either before or after you do thepumpguysc's yard!

 

[DIYDAVE]

X2 on what pumpguy says about Diesel additives. I fill the tank, on mine anytime weather can cause metal to sweat, on non vapor barrier floors. I have had good luck, with Power Service Diesel fuel conditioner, (the white can) and also, I like to start mine, at least 1x a month, let it run a little. Mine is in an ASV loader, so its less seasonal, than a mower, but then again, I even start the mowers, on warm days, in the winter...

 

[toomanyedwards]

Do the loaders, skid steers, etc. have drains on their fuel tanks? This thing doesn’t and it would have been handy to have one to drain off water and sediment after it’d been sitting so long. I ended up just siphoning out the old diesel through the fuel line. This thing has dual plastic tanks and I’m thinking about putting drains in them. On the other hand, I don’t want to put an unnecessary hole in the tanks.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Yes, that is the same filter cartridge with a Cat label on it. My idea is to install the adapter setup on the next one I service, I hate those things.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Your existing filter setup has a bottom bowl.. so water would naturally settle there..
I do understand about all the "extra moves" you have to do to get that POS filter installed tho..
That Bio-water filter is fancy.. BUT 71.00 & NO filter?? I think I'd keep looking.?

 

[Brian Smith]

Reserrecting my Cat/Perkins 3013c also. Oil pump shaft broke from casting in front by nut, or clip on end came off somehow wedging pieces between cover "cradle" of pump eccentric assembly. I had to break the cover to get it off. In the process, lost track of which hole in injection pump control linkage arm the little spring attaches to. Choice of 3. I'm putting it in the furthest back one. Anyone here know if that's correct??

 

[Nige]

I think this is what you're looking at. Not 100% guaranteed though ..........