Weird Hydraulic Issue cat 315CL

[TVA]

And with the old pump, with old regulators the NC was still 1000psi. I don’t think that whoever rebuild this pump messed up so bad.

And I goofed up on RPMs babbling on previous post, I admit that! That was something around 3:30 AM, for goodness sakes!!!

 

[floridamechanic]

After I clean out lines etc will test then move to pump, have complete old pump and took what Cat calls pressure actuators off side of pump to peek inside pump and look at shoes so if need different shims should have

 

[John C.]

Looking at the phantom view of the valve block showing the NC relief valve, part of the setup is the fitting that the hose is connected to. The phantom view also only shows a single relief cartridge on one side. The other side only shows the hose connection.
TVA, the NC pressure is the calibration point used for aligning pump outputs and affect said output throughout the ranges of operation. It is part of what gives the machine fine control. Hopefully cleaning out the lines and fittings will bring the pumps back to proper alignment without having to mess with the regulators.

 

[floridamechanic]

ok done with dozer, quick question why can I not switch lines from pump at valve block and see if pressure follows to other gauge, not hit any function just stay in neutral

 

[TVA]

Looking at the phantom view of the valve block showing the NC relief valve, part of the setup is the fitting that the hose is connected to. The phantom view also only shows a single relief cartridge on one side. The other side only shows the hose connection.
TVA, the NC pressure is the calibration point used for aligning pump outputs and affect said output throughout the ranges of operation. It is part of what gives the machine fine control. Hopefully cleaning out the lines and fittings will bring the pumps back to proper alignment without having to mess with the regulators.

Checking and cleaning the whole NC relief group and hoses that’s what we both me and you suggested like two or more pages ago.
If you talking about my comments about RPMs - I corrected my self earlier and blamed waking up too early .

Let see what cleaning will change. Both old and new pumps sow The same too high of a NC pressures, but who knows what those rebuilders set the flow at, having a good power to lift the machine fast on the boom down, without NC pressure going down to lower end can be seen as high “stand by” flow.

In my understanding setting a stand by flow on the regulator is for overwhelming the capacity of NC drain orifice and other small leakages and replenishing empty center gallery and hose all the way to regulator spool in the timely manner, so pump can be de stroked.
And the setting the stand by flow is not the primary mean of regulating NC pressure, which is supposed to be done by NC relief.

 

[floridamechanic]

ok switched lines at valve body, not gauges, only lines, two ports on side main valve body, as pic shows the upper port is one with 900lbs pressure bottom one 450lbs, switch lines from pump and nothing changed, top port still shows 900lbs bottom shows 450lbs, so changing pump acuator hoses has no effect, is this a worthwhile clue?

 

[TVA]

ok switched lines at valve body, not gauges, only lines, get same reading no change, pump #1 now showing 900 lbs, pump#2 showing 450lbs, am I right in thinking something pre-pump has to be setting these pressures?

Can you tell us what lines did you change?

 

[TVA]

As I remember before it was 1000 and 900?

 

[TVA]

Diagram shows NC relief s on both sections, so if one relief is not there than that’s an interesting development!

 

[floridamechanic]

switched these lines from pump no reading change

 

[TVA]

Yeah! Let’s clean everything and see what happens, seems like every time those hoses taken off - something changes!

 

[TVA]

ok switched lines at valve body, not gauges, only lines, two ports on side main valve body, as pic shows the upper port is one with 900lbs pressure bottom one 450lbs, switch lines from pump and nothing changed, top port still shows 900lbs bottom shows 450lbs, so changing pump acuator hoses has no effect, is this a worthwhile clue?

That’s actually can be seen as difference in stand by flow in regulators, but let’s clean everything first! I came back and re read the previous posts and one with the lower readings already dropped 200#
Just with hose taken off and reinstalled.

 

[funwithfuel]

With that busy of a schedule, you make me not only look bad, but feel bad too. You are one active guy.

ok going to clean out lines today, the nc lines go into side of block, where are the valves?? my plan was to pull lines and use siphon gun with diesel to blow out and check flow,just reread post, so if I pull control valve for boom up and boom down and their reliefs clean all them and blow out passages then test, the nc valve is in the control valve, will do this today and report back, have to put new idler on my dozer first, new ITR undercarriage and Right rear had bearing failure in 200 hrs so replaced whole idler in warranty, now at 240 hours has another, as you can see I do my best to stay away from normal stuff,

Sorry pump guy, it has to be done.

 

[TVA]

John, on the picture with OP pointing at the hoses, two smaller plugs, below the fittings - are those NC reliefs?

 

[TVA]

With that busy of a schedule, you make me not only look bad, but feel bad too. You are one active guy.


Sorry pump guy, it has to be done.

He said he wants to die awaken!

 

[TVA]

I don’t know about this valve block, but on Kawasaki at least one NC relief is on the bottom of the block looks like regular hex key plug.

And the n Kawasaki pumps you don’t have to shim to adjust min. Displacement, it has adjust screw right in to the swash plate’s ass.

Right Irish Kobelco?!?!?

 

[floridamechanic]

ok reporting in---
pulled nc lines off side block, pulled boom spool 2 inspected -mooves fee up an down an rotates no friction, nice smooth looks excellent, flushed with diesel an air towards side block reinstalled
did same thing to boom spool 1 same results on inspection, started an no change, did notice some stuff as I moved gauges where could see better, know ya'all get enough info you will know the issue

start engine, at idle pump 2 has 850-900 lbs, full throttle goes to 1100, boom up an curl on right joy stick, curl in or out to stops idle or full throttle nc drops to zero, boom up at idle or full throttle nc drops to zero, boom down at idle with nc pressure at 900lbs bucket resting on ground ''slam'' koystick full down get instant pressure drop to about 200 then right back to 900, happens so FAST you have to be paying attention or will miss it, open to full throttle and push boom down goes from 1100 to about 950 then back to 1100, what is amazing is the down pressure is awesome strong, understand pivot point with boom down an stick etc but here in Fl. all we have is soft soft sand, get mad at somebody here have to drive to Georgia get a rock to throw at them....... so where reliefs? And cat had me pill little two line block in front of boom spool 1, what is that? I need pull? BTW got a lot more flow out of spool #1 thru side of valve that spool #2 when flushing.

 

[floridamechanic]

third spool up is boom 1, right in front is little whickerbill with two lines going to it

 

[TVA]

This is sounds like either spool not blocking central gallery or something leaking to the center gallery when spool moves to boom down.

 

[floridamechanic]

Me an wife swapped out rear idler and loaded for job tomorrow, needed too do something in our spare time this morning, hope this Taiwan made idler last