''steep slopes on dozers''

[JDOFMEMI]

Deas
You are right about running just through the guide pullys. The boom we used was onsite anyway, and it is customized with the short boom for pulling a grid roller up and down the slope. It worked out well for the task. Had a really experienced hand at it too! 2nd day was interesting, as I had him lower me over the 1:1 at the top of the 5ft tall berm you see, went over it at a 45* angle, with nothing but already cut slope for the first 70 ft or so.

I hooked the choker around the lower ROPS mount, and it was very close to the center of balance, and allowed me to steer either direction, as needed.
I have also done this with a 14G blade, not in as extreme conditions as this, and tied the cable to the ear that holds the lift cylinder. we used a D-8K to pull with, hooked to the pusharm near the trunnion ball. We have also done this pulling ditches, and you would be amazed at how quickly you can finish.

Cascade
As Deas said, the slope board works better on top. if it is on the bottom, it only makes you slide more. It can keep you from overturning, but that is not generally the problem, as you slide way before you tip over.
I did take a slide off of a rock covered by only a few inches of dirt, so you couldn't see it till it was too late. When my tracks left the rock, the D-8K tipped up, and because the slope board was on the downhill side, I caught myself with it. Closest I ever came to tipping one over. Uphill track was 6 to 8 ft off of the ground. I was sidehilling because we werent allowed to dig in a road to cross this piece of ground.

 

[CascadeScaper]

Gotcha, I guess I had it backwards, I figured you'd roll before you'd slide. I've been on stuff a little steeper than 1:1 with an excavator travelling up/down the slope, but that's a whole different story and I'm sure it's much less challenging than sidehilling a dozer.

 

[tylermckee]

i'll sidehill our excavator with a blade on a 2:1 as long as its not mud or shot rock. i can still boom and stick all the way out and not get the uphill track in the air unless i try.

 

[alan627b]

Hello Deas! I have a language question for you...where does the term "batter" or "batters" come from? I've heard the term used over here, applied to "batter boards" used to outline an excavation for a basement.
Not the same thing. Also, what you make a cake from....
I also think it's interesting how here a slope is a 3 to 1, where "over there" it's a 1 in 3.....interesting how we yanks screwed up the English....
alan627b
How's the book coming?

 

[Deas Plant]

Language 'loused' up.

Hi, Alan.
I'm not sure where the term 'batter' came from but I suspect that it may have had something to do with the fact that there would have been a LOT of hammering or 'battering' of rock in the 'bad old days' before machines and bulk explosives to get rock shaped into any sort of regular slope. I am open to correction here.

With regard to differences in the way batters are quoted, I was always taught that the horizontal measurement is given first. Thus a grade that rises or descends 1 foot in 3 feet of horizontal movement is a 3 in 1 batter, 3 feet in for 1 foot up or down, while a batter that rises 1 foot in only a quarter of a foot horizontal movement would be either a 1/4 in 1 batter or a 1 in 4 batter - 1 foot in for 4 feet of vertical movement.

A 'batter board' can be one of two things DownUnder. It can be an add-on to a dozer blade for the purpose of cutting batters. It can also be a slope measuring device consisting of a triangular frame made in such a way that when one of the 3 sides is horizontal, determined by means of a spirit or bubble level attached to that side, another of its sides is at the required slope for the batter to be checked.

I have also made a couple of these that were adjustable and could be used to check any batter from about 7 in 1 through to 1 in 1. This is done by cutting a slot in the third side of the triangle to allow the top side to slide up or down and having a bolt with a wing nut to clamp the adjustment at the desired position for the slope/batter to be checked. The last one I made, about 2 years ago, cost a whopping $16.00 DownUnder money for the timber - 1" x 2" DAR (Dressed all round.), a small spirit level and the three 1/4" bolts and the flat washers to hold it all together - and took about an hour to make using a small power circular saw to do all the cutting and an electric drill to drill the holes. I drilled holes at each end of the slot and used a ripping guide in the power saw to cut the sides of the slot - done in about 10 minutes. I also measured and marked the positions for the adjustment for each of the settings from 7 in 1 to 1 in 1.

Just as a footnote, I made the second of these gadgets to show my employer of the time that he had no idea what he was talking about when it came to slopes. We had to cut a driveway around 2/3 of a mile long that had to stay pretty close to 4 in 1 for its entire length to be able to get to where it was intended to go. He had started the job using a Cat D5B dozer and had lost at least 10 feet of altitude in the first 70 yards that he cut while he was 'playing'. I had suggested getting a 'fore-and aft' slope meter and mounting it on top of the dash of the dozer to check the slope as it was being cut. "I don't need a slope meter", was the response and off he went. I had to re-cut that part of the driveway the next day.

Another use for the term, 'batter board', is those strange frames that surveyors sometimes erect along the edges of a cut or fill to indicate the slope of the batter of that cut or fill. These are also commonly called 'profiles' DownUnder.

Hope this helps.

The book hasn't 'moved' much since I sent the copy to you. I've been fairly busy answering questions and doing other things on here and at a couple of other forums around the traps. I have also been putting a bit of time into re-arranging another book that is a slightly higher priority in an effort to get it published.

 

[EZ TRBO]

Cool pics, been on a lot of steep slopes with excavators(going up and down), but have never been anywhere where sidebooms are used. I've heard talk about guys taking wheel-loader backhoes down steep slopes, and having a dozer on top, pulling them up or letting them go down as needed. Anyone else heard of that?
Trbo

 

[rino1494]

It can also be a slope measuring device consisting of a triangular frame made in such a way that when one of the 3 sides is horizontal, determined by means of a spirit or bubble level attached to that side, another of its sides is at the required slope for the batter to be checked.

That is a good idea. We just use a 6ft level and a tape measure.

 

[Deas Plant]

Slope meter.

Hi, Rino1494.
Feel free to use it. I don't have a patent on it. LOL. They are easy to use, light, easy to carry around in a pick-up and relatively robust, although not quite designed to take being run over by a D6R - NOT the voice of experience speaking.

The adjustable ones are especially useful as it only takes loosening a wing nut to adjust them and you can check any batter within their range. Very handy.

 

[Construct'O]

Hi, Rino1494.
Feel free to use it. I don't have a patent on it. LOL. They are easy to use, light, easy to carry around in a pick-up and relatively robust, although not quite designed to take being run over by a D6R - NOT the voice of experience speaking.

The adjustable ones are especially useful as it only takes loosening a wing nut to adjust them and you can check any batter within their range. Very handy.

Might be time to get it patented!!!! Unless you decied to go that root,do you have a close up picture of yours.Thanks!:usa

 

[Deas Plant]

Cloe Supp Foter?????????????????

Hi, Construct'O.
I sold that jigger to the employer of the time for the princely sum of $16.00 and I don't know if he still has it. However, I am back working for him again and will ask if he does still have it. If he does, I will take some photos and post them here - unless the accompanying sketch will do.

The dimensions shown for 'X' and 'Y' are not hard-and-fast, set-in-concrete dimensions. They can actually be anything you like. However, it does help to have them the same and at a length that makes working out the various slopes that you want to measure/check easy to calculate and put on to 'Z' which is where you will be doing your setting.

I put a small block of timber the same thickness as 'Z' between 'X' and 'Y' at Pivot A and pivotted 'Z' on one side of 'X' and the other side of 'Y' so that there was no binding at Pivot B as the angle between 'X' and 'Y' closed.

To be able to check batters as steep as 1:1, the slot in 'Z' needs to finish at least 4 feet from Pivot C.

Some typical measurements from Pivot B to Pivot C might be: (Based on dimensions shown.)

7:1 = 6.857142857" (Might as well call it 6.8" or 6.9". LOL.)

6:1 = 8"

5:1 = 9.8"

4:1 = 12"

3:1 = 16"

2:1 = 24"

1.5:1 = 32"

1:1 = 48"

What I did when setting these slopes on the slide of 'Z' originally was to measure from pivot bolt to pivot bolt and then mark the position of the top of 'X' on the side of 'Z' with a ball point pen. I then wrote the slope value alongside the line.

Kinyer see now why I chose 4 feet for 'X' and 'Y'???????????????

Just in case you haven't yet figured it out, that strange-looking jigger on top of 'X' is supposed to represent a spirit or bubble level securely fastened to 'X', usually with duct tape. Better pick an 'ack-rate' one. LOL.

Hope this helps.

Note to Mods. - if you want to copy this to somewhere where it can live on for future generations, please feel free. I don't 'own' the information. I'm just the mug that took the time to put it up here. LOL.

 

[Hjolli]

I might have the picture thing figured out

Ill give it a whirl.

This is a D-4C held up by a well used 561 sideboom
The slope isas follows

The top 20 ft at 1:1
the next 100 ft at 1.5:1
the bottom 80 ft (ending at 80 more ft of water) 2:1

Well, why on "earth" don´t they use an LGP model for this? The narrow tracks are also leaving pretty deep marks.

 

[Deas Plant]

What to use for a given job.

Hi, Hjolli.
Did it ever occur to you that they may not have had an LGP dozer in their 'toybox'? Even with really big companies, it is not always possible to have the exact tool or machine that is best suited to the job always available at the time. We have been having THAT discussion over on the Tree Clearing Day thread.

Quite aside from which, even with standard guage dozers, rollovers are not usually the first problem that you encounter when working slopes and batters. Usually, even narrow gauge dozers will slide before they'll roll. However, it is sometimes the sliding that leads to a rollover, when the lower track starts to dig in and stops the slide.

I have only limited experience of LGP's on batters but that experience does not lead me to believe that will stay up WITHOUT sliding where a normal-tracked wide gauge machine would not. In some soils, they may be even worse than a normal-tracked machine due to staying more on top the ground.

My own personal preference for side-cutting steep slopes, especially where ground conditions are a little soft as in that photo above, would be a 'swampy', a wide gauge dozer with swamp tracks. Sure, there is often going to be an extra pass or two to get a 'finish' on the job but they'll stay up on a softer batter where nothing else will. They are sometimes a bit handicapped when working on hard-packed slopes where their triangle pads can't sink in a little to get a bite. Then I'd switch to a normal-tracked wide gauge dozer - IF one was available.

Just my 0.02.

 

[Hjolli]

Side slopes

Well DP, I guess I´m a bit influenced by the fact that in my country you almost don´t see a dozer smaller than a D7 anymore without it beeing a LGP model. I guess you´re right in that sliding can be worse with the wider grouser, and my D6R LGP is sliding a lot on wet slopes.
In this situation where the machine is suspended sliding should not be a problem anyway.
But of course center of gravity is lower on LGP´s and with the wet weather we have been having lately, I´m happy about those wide tracks, otherwise it would be half buried in the mud

Hjolli

 

[Construct'O]

Hi, Construct'O.
I sold that jigger to the employer of the time for the princely sum of $16.00 and I don't know if he still has it. However, I am back working for him again and will ask if he does still have it. If he does, I will take some photos and post them here - unless the accompanying sketch will do.

The dimensions shown for 'X' and 'Y' are not hard-and-fast, set-in-concrete dimensions. They can actually be anything you like. However, it does help to have them the same and at a length that makes working out the various slopes that you want to measure/check easy to calculate and put on to 'Z' which is where you will be doing your setting.

I put a small block of timber the same thickness as 'Z' between 'X' and 'Y' at Pivot A and pivotted 'Z' on one side of 'X' and the other side of 'Y' so that there was no binding at Pivot B as the angle between 'X' and 'Y' closed.

To be able to check batters as steep as 1:1, the slot in 'Z' needs to finish at least 4 feet from Pivot C.

Some typical measurements from Pivot B to Pivot C might be: (Based on dimensions shown.)

7:1 = 6.857142857" (Might as well call it 6.8" or 6.9". LOL.)

6:1 = 8"

5:1 = 9.8"

4:1 = 12"

3:1 = 16"

2:1 = 24"

1.5:1 = 32"

1:1 = 48"

What I did when setting these slopes on the slide of 'Z' originally was to measure from pivot bolt to pivot bolt and then mark the position of the top of 'X' on the side of 'Z' with a ball point pen. I then wrote the slope value alongside the line.

Kinyer see now why I chose 4 feet for 'X' and 'Y'???????????????

Just in case you haven't yet figured it out, that strange-looking jigger on top of 'X' is supposed to represent a spirit or bubble level securely fastened to 'X', usually with duct tape. Better pick an 'ack-rate' one. LOL.

Hope this helps.

Note to Mods. - if you want to copy this to somewhere where it can live on for future generations, please feel free. I don't 'own' the information. I'm just the mug that took the time to put it up here. LOL.

Thanks for sharing.Nice simple and fast and easy tool looks like to use.I still use my hand held eyelevel for fast checks of the lay of the ground on some of my jobs.

I know this is a laser and GPR generation,but eyelevels are still a quick and fast way to give you and idea where to start at least.

They are fairly accurate at close ranges also.Still have my old deadman to hold the rod when i was working alone leveling for small building pads.:usa

 

[Deas Plant]

Yer welkum.

Hi, Construct'O.
Yer welkum, Mate. Hope it helps. I have always found it a quick, easy and pretty accurate way of checking batters and grades.

If you want to get down to grades of 1% or 2%, you will need to put a riser block up from 'Y' to make the pivot, 'A'. This only needs to be high enough for the arm, 'X', to be able to close right down onto 'Y' so that they end up parallel and touching all the way. You also need to make the slot in 'Z' close enough to 'Y' for 'X' to be able to close right down to 'Y'.

Doing it this way does eliminate the need for a spacer between 'X' and 'Y' at Pivot A 'cos they will both be on the same side of the riser block, allowing the slide, 'Z' to also be on the same side of both.

You might want to use a longer, better quality spirit/bubble level if you are going to check grades that fine.

Happy checking.

 

[Bandit44]

Other than steep slopes if you are new to running a dozer what are the main things to watch out for. I have already found out that I need to make some brush quards for the back and sides.

 

[Dozerboy]

Depends on the job every job has different hazards. One thing with dozers on most jobs is cresting windrows or sharp grade changes that will make the dozer rock back and forth.

 

[N.CarolinaDozer]

Try doing a pond that starts with a three to one, goes to a two and a half to one, then one to one! I've been working on one for two weeks, finishing and spreading topsoil back over it at a wal-mart in N. Carolina.

 

[Bandit44]

Whats the best way to fix a pond that has a leak in the levee? I think that maybe a tree root may be the cause of the leak but not sure. It's finally started raining here so I will have to wait till next summer, but at least I will know what to try.

 

[Countryboy]

Welcome to HEF Bandit44! :drinkup