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''steep slopes on dozers''

Discussion in 'Dozers' started by white_boyz1, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. RT Engineering

    RT Engineering Active Member

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    I agree, I think the slope is flatter than a 1:1, probably closer to a 1.5: 1.

    I have finished many slopes, My D6M was great on 2:1, you can go anywhere you want. On the 1.5: 1 slopes, you have to be more careful, usually working at an angle, not straight across. The clay type soils are also easier to work with, on sandy slopes, the lower track likes to dig holes.

    I would also like to see a dozer working a 1:1 slope, or for that matter how about a dozer climbing a 1: 1 slope. I have been down several, but the machine usually does not want to climb back up.

    See if you can find some grade checking gear, or a smart level. You will probably be supprised that the slope is not as steep as you think. And if it is truly a 1:1, let's see some pictures.

    RT
     
  2. biggixxerjim

    biggixxerjim Senior Member

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    no no no, the D6 will go 3-2, our John Deere 450H LGP will go on a 1-1.

    on second thought once looking at that angle chart, the d-6 was more like a 2-1 and the 450 a 3-2. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2007
  3. Deas Plant

    Deas Plant Senior Member

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    Steep slopes.

    Hi, Folks.
    As I have mentioned before, the main problem with keeping most dozers on steeper slopes, especially steeper than 1.5:1 is that they want to slide down the slope. I have worked batters a bit in my career and I have yet to find a dozer that would stay up on ANY slope steeper than 1.5:1 without a substantial windrow below the machine to hold it from sliding. Ususally, the only way to get such a windrows is to final cut the batter as you come down, so that the bottom track is actually riding the bottom edge of the batter and the windrow has flat ground to sit on.

    Now I'm not saying that it is impossible to side-cut steeper than 1.5:1 because I have done it - with an anchor dozer on top of the batter to hold me. I'll just say that I'd like to see a dozer side-cutting a 1:1 batter and NOT sliding down the slope. This tendency to slide is NOT a characteristic of any individual make or model of machine. It is a fact of life to do with slip angles, traction, adhesion, grouser pattern and a few other things as well. Width of track guage doesn't have much at all to do with sliding, only with the machine's tip angle.

    I have run various D4's, a D5B wide gauge, various D6's and D7's, D8H's and D9G's on 1.5:1 batters and you do have to be a little careful. It is extremely hard to do on fill slopes, a little easier on cut slopes, for relatively obvious reasons.

    I have been side-cutting 2:1 batters with a Cat 943 the last couple of days, quite happily. There were a few places where the batter got a little steeper. It got a little hairier in those places but the 943 is still standing, greasy side down and I don't have any REALLY dirty underwear to wash today.

    RTEngineering, I once took a Cat D9G with hydraulic angle blade and NO ripper up an 8 foot high VERTICAL cut wall in an iron ore mine in Western Australia one night in February, 1968. The jug of beer that I won tasted really nice too, better than any I ever bought while working there. Mind you, I don't recommend it for beginners or even for experienced operators, BUT I HAVE done it.

    Having said that, I'm with you about side-cutting 1:1 batters.
     
  4. JimBruce42

    JimBruce42 Senior Member

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    Like I said I'm not 100% sure if that particular spot was 1:1 or not. That being said, whenever he lifted the blade to back up he didn't pick it up very far and the up slope track would lift off the ground slightly, so it was steep. I wish I had taken a couple more photos from different angles cause it was still impressive to see, oh well:beatsme
     
  5. Construct'O

    Construct'O Senior Member

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    I'm sure it was steep by the picture you posted,and by the way thanks for posting or the link for a look see at the dozer on the slope.Get that GPS turned on next time okay:D

    Nice machine and for the the size of machine he is doing good for sure.Being a wide track lgp is to his bennifit. Good luck with you project and thanks again:usa
     
  6. JimBruce42

    JimBruce42 Senior Member

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    Thanks, lol, I'm sure the GPS was on, we had to make sure we were over that proposed sewer line, otherwise, why bother prebenching:drinkup

    The guy that runs that 6 gets a kick out of slopes I think, seems to enjoy getting onto them. The photo is about 5 month old now though, time to get some new photos:drinkup :notworthy
     
  7. Dozerboy

    Dozerboy Senior Member

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    The dozer in that pic at most is on a 1.5:1 at most. When I sidehill 1.5:1 I sit on the arm rest not in the seat. I've pushed up 1:1 with a D6 several times heck I've took a smooth drum Cat roller with rubber rears up and down several 1.5:1.
     
  8. Deas Plant

    Deas Plant Senior Member

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    GPS on slopes.

    Hi, JimBruce42.
    Thanks for the link to the photos. I would agree that it appears that slope is around 1.5:1. GPS is great for a lot of things but it only tells you where your blade/cutting edge is at any given time, NOT where your tracks/wheels are.

    If you have a look at that photo, you will see that the high side of the blade is somewhat out of the ground. This means that, unless the operator has very recently tilted that side up, the top track will be a little lower than the blade itself and consequently on a lesser slope than the blade.

    Just my view of things. Thanks again for the link.
     
  9. pushcat

    pushcat Well-Known Member

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    Do you have your dozer set up with automatics or just cab display? And if so, how is your satellite reception on that slope? On south facing slopes I can usually keep enough satellites on to use the automatics but sometimes if the antennas get tilted to the north too much I'll lose a couple and that will put the accuracy tolerance out of spec. The vertical alignment will still be accurate but the horizontal (grade) may not. But that might be what you're shooting for, the pipe alignment, right? But that GPS does make a sweet looking cut slope when you're done!
     
  10. JimBruce42

    JimBruce42 Senior Member

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    Most if not all our dozers have the displays only, from what I've heard the earlier auto's were sluggish. I got the chance to try out a new D5g last fall with automatics on it as a demo machine, and the 3 of us who were there trying it all agreed that auto is great for that last pass (a tenth or less), respreading loose soil or stoning a road, but cutting into virgin, packed ground a good operator could go faster without getting sucked in. That was just our opinion on it, could be why we don't use them a whole lot.:beatsme :usa The GPS itself is a great tool in the field though, almost all our dozers, graders, 815's and more and more of our Mass excavators have GPS equipped:notworthy
     
  11. mitchell2905

    mitchell2905 Well-Known Member

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    I remember watching a video in school about the construction of the trans-alaskian pipeline, and they used a technique called "yo-yo dozing". This is where two D-9s were hooked together with a length of thick cable, and the first one would start pushing off the top of a sheer mountain, and when he couldn't back up because he had gone vertical, or was completly suspended, the other dozer would pull him back up!:eek: Has anyone else heard or seen the video with this info in it??
     
  12. Deas Plant

    Deas Plant Senior Member

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    Cabling on slopes

    Hi, Mitchell2905.
    I haven't done it as you described with one dozer going over the edge from the top and the other anchoring him and pulling him back up. I have used the system to clean out swamps and wet areas with a small dozer going into the swamp or wet area to do the work and a bit bigger one out on dry land on the other end of the cable to do any recovery that might be needed.

    I have also used it with both dozers and graders side-cutting batters where it was too steep or too high for the machine to be able to stay up there to trim the top. A bigger dozer is used as the anchor on top of the batter while a grader or a smaller dozer is working over the side doing the trimming. Both machines have to travel back and forth together or the bottom one doesn't achieve much. The holding cables or chains are gradually lengthened as the trimming progresses down the slope. It helps to have an area at one end or the other, or both, where the batter machine can be parked with slack chain or cable to allow the lengthening to be done in some sort of safety.

    We trimmed 50 feet of 1:1 batter about 200 feet long on an earth dam wall using this method some years ago, with a D8H and a Cat 12E 21F grader, sadly before I became a shutter-bug. We just kept shackling in extra 8-foot lengths of cable front and rear, as we worked our way down.

    The low - left - side of the grader cabin/footplate was fenced in with 2"x1" RHS, welded in place, and the seat was somewhat modified for the duration of the job to take some of the tilt out of it. It was still a bit of a problem needing one leg long to reach the clutch pedal and one leg short to reach the accelerator and brake pedal. Ditto with one long arm for the left blade lift and one short one for the right blade lift.

    We all survived. And were actually capable of going on to work on other jobs.
     
  13. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

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    Steep slope work where the dozer or grader can slide down the slope or roll over can also be done with a sideboom instead of a dozer to be the anchor. You want a short boom on the sideboom, only as tall as the drawworks. This method lets you take out the slack, and also fetch the lower machine back up the slope when finished if there is no exit at the bottom, such as cutting 1:1 and 1.5:1 slopes that end at the waters edge, over 80 or so ft of water.
     
  14. Deas Plant

    Deas Plant Senior Member

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    Escape route/Back door.

    Hi, Jerry.
    I'm with you on that one. It's always nice to have a 'back door' when faced with a situation like that.

    I've never used a 'boom for that sort of work - never had one around when it was needed - but I can easily see what you mean and how it would work.
     
  15. JDOFMEMI

    JDOFMEMI Senior Member

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    I might have the picture thing figured out

    Ill give it a whirl.

    This is a D-4C held up by a well used 561 sideboom
    The slope isas follows

    The top 20 ft at 1:1
    the next 100 ft at 1.5:1
    the bottom 80 ft (ending at 80 more ft of water) 2:1
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Construct'O

    Construct'O Senior Member

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    Great picture!!!!!!:usa
     
  17. CascadeScaper

    CascadeScaper Senior Member

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    Awesome picture! Just curious though, could the slope bar if placed on the downhill side have the same affect? Would it hold a machine?
     
  18. Deas Plant

    Deas Plant Senior Member

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    Nice shot.

    Hi, Jerry.
    Great photo. Thanks for sharing. It occurred to me that you could also use the hoist rope straight out of the guide pulleys in the same manner. It may be necessary to put rollers on either side of the pulleys to stop the rope being pulled against the edges of the pulleys if the two machines get a little out of 'sync', but it could be done.

    Having some counterweight on the 'boom would also help the cause.

    I have always used outside push-arm dozers for this work and we anchored from the near push arm of the top dozer to the front and rear of the top push arm of the batter machine. What did you anchor to on the D4C.

    When I used the Cat 12 21F grader, I welded lugs to the frame under the cab and to the front end of the frame just under and a little ahead of the scarifier and shackled the anchor ropes to those. The grader travelled slightly lop-sided on level ground until we cut them off again. LOL.

    CascadeScaper, I faintly suspect that the batter blade would be more use on the top side, especially with the machine anchored from above. Even on a batter where you could work without an anchor, it would be better/safer to have the windrow immediately under the lower track to help hold the machine up on the batter instead of further down where it would be holding nothing up. Just my 0.02.
     
  19. CascadeScaper

    CascadeScaper Senior Member

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    Makes sense to me, 'course I'm not a seasoned dozer hand. :notworthy
     
  20. D6RXW_GPS

    D6RXW_GPS Member

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    I've been working on slopes for the last couple monthes that range from 2.8 up to 1.5 to 1. It's an old gravel pit that's being converted to condo housing and we're sloping down the remaining face which is about 80' high and up to 90' wide for the fill. I'm on a 6RXW and have had trouble staying on the slope where the material changes to sandy pockets or larger rocks and boulders. I don't have much more than an inch of grouser left so it's a little challenging to say the least