My 580B can not even move!!!

[willie59]

I have to agree with Phil, cpelz. I've only worked on triple nickle Fords a couple of times, don't remember that much about them. What Phil is saying is that most all tractor/loader/backhoes have a de-clutch mechanism for various machine operations. One would be with the loader full of material and bucket low to ground, you drive machine to a dump truck to load it. When you near the truck, you need to raise the loader. You press the de-clutch button, this allows you to throttle the engine to raise the load quickly without the drive engaged. Another application would be to de-clutch to shift gears of the manual tranny when selecting higher gears for roading. The de-clutch is usually a solenoid operated valve in the area of the fwd/rev shuttle transmission. That would be between convertor housing and manual gearbox. What Phil is saying is look for a solenoid valve in that area and disconnect the wires from it and see if that makes your problem go away. If so, you can then operate your machine without a de-clutch (which can be annoying) or procede with properly repairing your de-clutch wiring. The de-clutch buttons are normally found as a button on top of the loader control lever, a small pedal or button found on floorplate around the area of brake pedals, and on machines like a later Case machine, there's a button on the handle of the manual tranny shift lever. There ya' go, that should keep you busy for a little while.

 

[cpelz]

RE: de-clutch mechanism

That all makes a lot of sense and would explain my observations and problems. I even think I've seen the solenoid you're talking about. I don't think I'll have a chance to work on the machine for a week or so, but I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks so much,

cpelz

 

[HTR]

Lots of great info here. I am new so tried to find a post that matched my problem.
We have a 580BCK backhoe. Runs great but one morning went out to run it and it just wouldn't move. Initial thought was a shuttle problem but upon taking things apart we found that the Drive Pump itself had broken off the plate. Cracked right along the bolt holes. Once we fished the parts out overall we found the pump is in good shape. Can fix the mounting braket but the shaft is bent and apparently you can only buy the whole pump...not parts for it. Does anyone know where I can find a used pump or parts of a pump? Really just need the Main shaft as well as the relief valve assembly. Had planned on trying to fix all this myself being that money is tight and a new pump at over $700 is hard to swallow. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

 

[carogator]

It took three weeks of searching to find, but these people have almost anything you want or need. Try MOTION INDUSTRIES, INC., you can enter their name +.com then find a local dealer, or if you know your part #, put it in

 

[HTR]

Thanks Carogator. I will give them a shot.

 

[Phil]

One has to wonder what caused the shuttle pump to break off in the first place. You will be hard pressed to find used pump parts, any good used pump will be sold complete, but you never know. Phil

 

[HTR]

Kind of a mystery to me too. worked with it one weekend, parked it and all was fine. Next weekend it wouldn't move and I never heard anything break or let loose. I dont think this pump is the original pump...so this could have been caused by someone, probably like me, working on it that didn't really know what they were doing.

Either way I was able to weld the outer gear onto the shaft I have. Going to put her back in and see what happens. I live out in the middle of no where Texas so I am hoping to see if this gets me moving. Even if it only moves 10 feet I will know that my issue is just the pump and can save up for a new one. I would hate to spend that kind of money on a pump only to find out that I have even more issues. As much as I like the old Backhoe...and lord knows it runs great...I just cant sink a ton of money into it right now.

 

[truviking]

Clutch pedal and brake pedal

On my 580b, when I depress my clutch pedal it pulls in my brake pedals. Is this supposed to work this way? I am having problems with my machine. I am new to this and seeking help. I also have to pull on the clutch pedal a little to get it to engage. Also my left side brake pedal feels like it is not working like it should. My brakes does not work or shall I say they need adjusting. The right side brake works but is very weak. So I am wondering if this is causing the problem I am having with little or sluggish power. Was wondering if brakes are holding machine back.
The machine has a hard time climbing the slightest hill or when pushing into a pile it struggles. The motor doesn't bog down ,it just keep running at the same rpm(maybe a tad bit faster) The trans oil pressure gauuge reads in the green when in gear and clutch is released. When depressed it drops in the red or zero. I Just changed the filter in front of the radiator(torque convertor filter?) and my oil levels are ok. The oil does not appear to be comtaminated.

 

[carogator]

for those case pumps you can try to get used ones at
www.tandhsalesinc.com
Pavo, Ga
1=229=859-2643

 

[Phil]

HTR,
I did have an old B pump at one time, if I think of it, I'll look for it today.

Truviking,
Yes the clutch pedal on a B is attached to one of the brake pedals, not sure if it's both or just one. A weak clutch pedal return spring is common for the B and any binding in the pedal pivot point quickly adds to the problem.

Brake problems are common on the CK,B,C, and D. Fortunately they are not that hard to get apart. If a brake is dragging, the machine won't roll freely down a slight grade, or it will stop suddenly with shifted in neutral. Do you have good pressure on the dash gauge when in forward or reverse? Does it read the same as when in neutral? The B model is sluggish but when warm the machine should spin the back wheels when loading the bucket, in first gear. Phil

 

[truviking]

Phil here are a little more of my symptoms. I do have good pressure on the dash gauge when in forward or reverse. When in nuetral it reads zero and in gear it in the green section.The machine does move freely down a hill but thats because the brakes are so worn that there is not enough brake left to stop machine. When I press on the brake the machine will not stop.The brake pedals stick I have to toe pull the clutch pedal up(like you said worn spring). The left wheel does not spin freely unless I pull the clutch pedal and the LEFT brake pedal up. OK it might be enough resistance to make the machine feel sluggish but I did pull the pedals up when I was testing it on an incline and its still sluggish.

 

[Joe Ramirez]

truviking:

My local dealer found that the original spec. spring (B model)for the clutch/brakes combo can be replaced with the C series model of spring. The later model spring is the same length, much stronger and a direct replacement. Hope this helps.

 

[Phil]

Truviking,
Hmm, before suggesting a shuttle assembly problem, I think I would verify your dash gauge, just in case. Disconnect this line at the top of the shuttle valve body where it connects and check pressure with another gauge. Should be 170-190 psi I believe. Check it with the clutch pedal all the way back(foot off), in gear and out of gear.

Pull the rear torque tube drain plug and take a sample of the oil, any aluminum in it?

Did your machine suddenly start acting sluggish or did you buy it this way? Will it spin the back wheels on dry ground if you push against a pile in first gear? Does your engine rev up okay and a little black smoke under load? Phil

 

[truviking]

Phil,
This is going to take a few days for me to check because I have to order a gauge 0-300psi. Couldn't find one anywhere here. As soon as it comes in I'll check the pressures.
I bought the machine this way assuming this was not a huge problem. Guess I assumed wrong. The back wheels will not spin when I am pushing into a pile in first gear. revs up fine and I do get a lil puff of smoke ubder a load. Previous owner claims the engine was rebuilt two years ago and was hardly used.

 

[Phil]

Truviking,
Good to do this pressure test. If the shuttle unit has to come out then it's a good reference to have. Nice to get a 4' length of 1/4" hydraulic hose attached to your gauge also, the other end should be male 1/8" NPT thread. The liquid filled gauges are nice. A 0-500psi gauge would be okay too, that would work for the pressure check at the filter if needed. Some of the farm supply stores like TSC stock these gauges for less than $20.

Shuttle problems are common with the B. They were very robust but lots of hours and dirty oil takes it's toll.

While waiting for a gauge, with little effort you can take the rear cover off the torque tube and inspect the shuttle clutch pack plates. This is the cover with the dipstick in it. If they have been slipping, they will look burnt on the ends. If you do this check, attach a picture. Phil

 

[tompreato]

580CK Torque Pump, Post #247

HTR:
I have a used torque pump that has a scored shaft but I believe with a little buffing and replacing the shaft "key", it should work fine. If you'd like to inspect it and give it a try, email your address "tompreato@sbcglobal.net" and I'll ship it to you. If it works, fine. If not, discard it (although it should work).

Tom

 

[Rip3196]

Hi Phil and all,
It looks like gasket material on the screen might have been our problem. We are going to try and get the pump tested. Are these pumps reliable? She we be thinking about a rebuild or replacement at this stage. Is there anything else we should look at while it is torn apart?

Thanks Rip

 

[Rip3196]

Here is some pics.
Rip

 

[HEAVY386]

Hello seen your fluid #2 should be gear oil , but i`d lift the machine using the stabilizers and go in 1st gear see if you have any tire movment with no pressure on them you might have shutle trans troblem usually cold it should get some movement . Good luck

 

[Phil]

Welcome to the forum Heavy386.

I have a question from Rip to answer. The B shuttle pump is pretty robust and will tolerate a little wear. But because it's hard to access, one always looks it over pretty carefully. While it's out, and I'm assuming the tractor is not split, make sure the 2 sealing rings at the base of the pump are replaced. The pump intake tube gasket, of course, needs to be replaced, but check the tube's flange surface for 'flatness' with a file. Check the pump drive gear key. Remove the pump's relief valve roll pin and inspect the spring and ball, and look for debris under the ball's seat.

I always take all the valve sections apart, but may not be necessary in your case. It's a lot of gasket scraping, washing, blowing with compressed air, that's after you've taken all the valve components out. And the spools seals should be replaced if spools are removed. Make sure the new valve body gaskets, top and middle, are correct for your machine serial #, there are 2 different top and middle gaskets.

Be meticulous about cleanliness around the adapter plate surface on the torque tube. Any dirt or gasket material can easily get into the 2 ports leading to the torque converter or the 2 ports leading to the shuttle assembly.

There are specs on the shuttle pump: min. 9.5GPM @ 2000rpm @ 110-130 deg F with the flow meter load valve adjusted to 200psi. Relief valve spring has a 1.90" free length and exerts a pressure of 17.5-21.5 lbs when compressed to 1.27". New pump gears are .749"-.750" wide, with an O.D. of 1.707"-1.709". New shaft diameter is .4912" to .4915". Phil