John Deere 410 - Hydraulic is dead

[OldandWorn]

All of those sound like good things to check for. The main pump shaft is splined so take that into consideration. Unless the splines are gone, if you can see the coupler turning it's a good chance your pump is also turning. Thinking about your symptoms I'm going to guess that you don't have any major high dollar problems.

 

[OldandWorn]

outbackrider.....I'm looking at JD online and I see the pump gears. My parts catalog just shows the front and back plate (5 and 9) with nothing in the middle and lists it as an assembly.

 

[OldandWorn]

arnstein77....I found another filter on our machines that I never knew about and it may be something to look at if your other checks don't find anything. I have a very difficult to navigate military manual and I found a troubleshooting section for "hydraulics not working". One of the things they mentioned is a filter in the stroke control valve which is attached to the front of the main pump. On the bottom right hand side there is a big nut to gain access to this filter. It's part #15 under stroke control valve, hydraulic pump.

 

[OldandWorn]

On that stroke control filter I just mentioned it looks to be not used in serial #383251 and up. I don't know why they say serialized and non-serialized but it sure is confusing to me.

Contradicting what I said about being a cheap fix. If your hoe always works when the oil is cold and stops when it warms up, that could indicate a worn out pump.

 

[outbackrider]

Here is a photo that I took of the sump screen.
This is after removing the short hose and unscrewing the steel nippled fitting that the hose attaches to.
Reach in and pull out the screen. At the time, I had a mental block on where the screen was....then the light came on...
Over time, crud and unfortunately brake lining material can cause this screen to clog. As I understand it, this screen rough filters the hydraulic oil being pumped by the transmission gear pump to front high pressure pump. Any low pressure return oil is filtered through the canister micro filter before ending back in the transmission sump, to repeat the process. If this screen is clogged, hydaulic performance will go down, due to lack of oil flow to the front pump....Hope I am not being too redundant....

 

[Awhelan]

I had the same problem with the exact same machine. First thing you gotta do is pressure test it.
There are a couple test ports on the pump to check it, Its fairly easy. I'll give you some more info. on that tonite after work.
Mine turned out to be a stripped input shaft on the reverser assembly, Wrenchbender did one and the clutch had exploded in it, another guy had one and it was a blocked sump screen.
All of these machines had the same symptoms as yours. I think there is also a relief valve in there that will cause it too.
For now here's my thread: https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?10191-410-JD-Issue&highlight=1980+jd+410
Andy

 

[arnstein77]

Thanks Outbackrider for a nice picture of the screen placement. I am realy hoping for a easy fix, but propably I have a stripped input shaft or clutch disk.. I am guessing that the "gear grinding test" will confirm it if there is a stripped shaft og clutch..? Thank for the information Awhelan! How much work is it to split the engine from the tractor? Does anyone have a step by step guide for that?

 

[Delmer]

I suggested the gear grinding test, but other members have added better advice. If you get nothing from the transmission, then the clutch isn't turning for some reason. if it grinds "lightly" it could be dragging but not turning under any load.

It's a ton of work to split a tractor like that, depending on what kind of equipment you have. relatively simple though.

 

[chroniekon]

Here is a copy and paste from the 310 manual. There are a few pictures that didn't follow along. Also, like most manuals, when reading one section, it refers you back to other sections of the manual. I edited/added to the following text the best I could to eliminate some of the confusion this would cause. If you need clarification on something, let me know. You may want to consider purchasing a manual. I bought mine on CD from www.johndeeretechinfo.com It was under $50.

REMOVING AND INSTALLING REVERSER HOUSING

Removal

Raise loader to full height and support boom by one
of the following methods.
1. Attach a piece of angle iron to the boom cylinder
piston rod between the rod end and the cylinder barrel,
being careful to avoid damaging the piston rod.
Be sure the angle iron is large enough to rest against
the cylinder barrel and not against the head casting.
2. Use prop under cross member to support boom.
3. Chain bucket to hoist or overhead beam.

Disconnect battery ground strap. Drain oil from
transmission. Bleed down accumulator by operating
steering valve.
Disconnect all connections between clutch housing
and engine
Remove operator’s seat and floor panels.
Disconnect main pump pressure line at pressure
control valve on right side of transmission.
Insert wooden blocks between front axle and front
end support to keep tractor from tipping.
Place solid blocking under loader frame and remove
cap screws securing loader to front end support
and canopy brackets to flywheel housing.
Support rear of machine and front of transmission
case with solid blocking.
Install two JD-244 engine lifting adapters in engine
cylinder head. Attach JDG-1 sling to adapters and to
A-frame hoist.
Fig. 8-Engine Attaching Points
Remove reverser housing-to-engine cap screws.
With the aid of a hoist, roll engine with front end
assembly away from reverser housing.
Disconnect all the necessary wiring, linkage and
hydraulic lines between upper cowl and reverser
housing. Disassemble upper cowl from top of reverser
housing.
Disconnect and remove the brake valve and transmission
shift cover. Remove transmission-hydraulic
oil filters.
1 -Reverser Housing 3-Transmission Shifter Cover
2-Transmission Case 4-Attaching Points
Fig. S-Reverser Housing Attaching Points
Position a chain hoist around reverser housing.
Remove cap screws securing reverser housing to
transmission case and remove housing from transmission.

 

[Awhelan]

Testing at port "B" should give you trans. pump pressure. If you get nothing you'll prob. be pulling the motor. Check your trans. sump screen, filters and relief valves first.

 

[Awhelan]

I had to size the pages to upload, now there hard to read. The bottom port is "B" should be 100+ psi. The top port is pump output pressure and should be 1300 or 1700 psi depending on your serial#

 

[Awhelan]

Also on a side note, I'm interested in your seat and how it's mounted. Could you get me a few pics?

 

[OldandWorn]

Also on a side note, I'm interested in your seat and how it's mounted. Could you get me a few pics?

I have had the whole assembly off if you have any specific questions.

 

[arnstein77]

No grinding from the gearbox... :-( any other checks I should do before I start splitting?

 

[Delmer]

Did you find anything in any of the filters or screen? Do you see any inspection hole for the bellhousing, to take a peek at the flywheel and clutch? maybe take the starter off and use a mirror, or vacuum cleaner to check for loose junk?

sure sounds like you'll be splitting it though...

 

[chroniekon]

You could try the trans pump pressure test at port B as described in Awhelan's post. I don't think you would even need a pressure gauge. If oil comes out, the pump is turning.

 

[OldandWorn]

I was stuck in mud and tried to get out by both driving and pushing with the digger when suddenly the hydraulic became weak. After a while the hydraulic did not responde at all. Everything is dead, power steering, front bucket, digger and the tractor does not move back or forward. There is no "bad" sound from the tractor.

Ahhh...I understand now. These are the sellers words and not what happened to you when you were testing the machine out before buying. It made me think that the machine would operate ok when cold.

Don't get ahead of yourself. The checks in the last few posts needs to be done first at the very least.

 

[arnstein77]

Splitted my backhoe in half today and found broken springs from the clutch.



Thanx for all your help and support! Good to know there is a place on the web where people know an old JD!

Must say I am impressed with the design of the 410. It was easy to splitt the backhoe due to good engineering!

Is there anything else I should change with the engine seperated from the transmission? The crank shaft seal? Is it easy to replase? Is it easy accessable behind the flywheel?

 

[arnstein77]

Splitted my backhoe in half today and found broken springs from the clutch.

View attachment 102979

Thanx for all your help and support! Good to know there is a place on the web where people know an old JD!

Must say I am impressed with the design of the 410. It was easy to splitt the backhoe due to good engineering!

Is there anything else I should change with the engine seperated from the transmission? The crank shaft seal? Is it easy to replase? Is it easy accessable behind the flywheel?

I guess the broken parts will follow a complate clutch replacement set? Does anyone have the part numbers? Is it straigt forward to replace like a normal car clutch?

 

[OldandWorn]

You should be able to get on the Deere site for your country and look the numbers up. I don't know your serial number but it looks like the pressure plate assembly or individual parts including the springs (T24956) are no longer availiable. The US site says to contact the dealer. The clutch plate looks to be availiable with a number change (AL71088).

https://jdparts.deere.com/servlet/com.deere.u90.jdparts.view.publicservlets.HomeUnsigned