John Deere 410 - Hydraulic is dead

[Delmer]

Did you take the clutch apart? Those might be from the disk not the pressure plate?

I'd definitely do the seal. It looks like it's a one piece and "should" be easy. When I had the hydraulic pump off the front of my JD backhoe, I took the front seal off even though there was no leakage and the machine is newer than yours. Glad I did, the spring in the seal was wearing a groove in the surface it rode on, so now I have a new seal and a speedisleave.

Don't get worried that JDparts says the parts are unavailable, that might just mean they're unavailable online. Everything is available somewhere, and it won't be hard to get that disk or complete set.

 

[arnstein77]

Did you take the clutch apart? Those might be from the disk not the pressure plate?

I'd definitely do the seal. It looks like it's a one piece and "should" be easy. When I had the hydraulic pump off the front of my JD backhoe, I took the front seal off even though there was no leakage and the machine is newer than yours. Glad I did, the spring in the seal was wearing a groove in the surface it rode on, so now I have a new seal and a speedisleave.

Don't get worried that JDparts says the parts are unavailable, that might just mean they're unavailable online. Everything is available somewhere, and it won't be hard to get that disk or complete set.

Unfortunately I did not take the clutch apart, and it is a 2 hour drive from my house.. I guess it could be the springs on the clutch disk its self?



What does these springs do? The clutch pedal felt ok before i splitted the blackhoe, that indicate that the pressure plate is ok? Is it normal that the springs in the clutch disk breakes?

Expensive parts, so hoping I could get away with only the disk....

 

[Marius]

Unfortunately I did not take the clutch apart, and it is a 2 hour drive from my house.. I guess it could be the springs on the clutch disk its self?

What does these springs do? The clutch pedal felt ok before i splitted the blackhoe, that indicate that the pressure plate is ok? Is it normal that the springs in the clutch disk breakes?

Expensive parts, so hoping I could get away with only the disk....

The springs in the clutch attenuate the torque peaks coming from the engine. Without them there would be lots more vibrations and sounds - NO FUN AT ALL. Also reduced lifetime of the components driven by the clutch. Yes, sometimes the springs break, maybe due to excessive heat, and/or force, not sure.

 

[OldandWorn]

Did you take the clutch apart? Those might be from the disk not the pressure plate?

Very good point! Looking at the pics in the linked thread, the pressure plate springs look to be larger than the ones laying in the bottom of the OP's machine. It also looks as though the pressure plate springs are visible after splitting the tractor.

I would also replace the throwout and pilot bearings since it's open.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?10191-410-JD-Issue&highlight=1980+jd+410

 

[Delmer]

It's not normal for the springs to break, but if something fails, as opposed to the clutch facing wearing out, that's more likely than the pressure plate failing. The springs take the shock out of clutch abuse, and they took a little too much.

The clutch "feeling" good, is a good sign that the pressure plate is OK, but you'll want to take a good look at it before you reuse it.

 

[joeeye59]

On mostly all vehicles like cars and pick-ups its impossible to install the clutch backwards, but being this is the first time I've ever seen clutch springs break like that I can't help but ask if the unit looked like it could have been taken apart a year or two or three ago and your particular backhoe is known to be able to install the clutch backwards? Just an educated guess. Try looking at both sides of the new and old clutch and see if the mechanics of it such as what houses the springs and such have the same measurements, so that there is a chance that it could have been installed backwards by the prior owner? Can you post a picture of the old clutch, because the picture I see there looks like a new clutch. Thanks a bunch for posting your finding! ~Joe

 

[arnstein77]

Hi, I will post a picture of the old clutch once I have removed it from the backhoe. Never heard of a clutch beiing installed the wrong way. How do you install it backwards?

Will my new clutch be marked some way? This side out?

 

[Delmer]

Yes, every one I've ever seen is marked flywheel side, but some of them will go in the wrong way too. Typically the hub would wear on the flywheel if it was put in wrong.

 

[arnstein77]

This is the reason for my problems:



Hopefully, there is nothingelse wrong with the machine!

 

[Deon]

That machine should, like the 1981 410 I use to own, have an accumulator to soften the forward and reverse functions. If it's empty of nitrogen, I assume will cause the shifts in direction to be abrupt and could cause these springs to take the hit. Anybody have better knowledge of this information?

 

[joeeye59]

I agree with Deon, don't them rivets look like its still a new clutch ?

 

[Deon]

I agree with Deon, don't them rivets look like its still a new clutch ?

The clutch doesn't show any ware because it is not used like a conventional clutch. It's only ever disengaged it you lift the metal lever on the clutch pedal for cold weather starting. Normal clutch disengagements are hydraulic.

 

[Jerry capobianc]

I have a 310b JD that has the same problem will run but no steering no forward or reverse no loader or backhoe. Did you find it hard to split this machine. I think I'm going to have to split it because talking the low pressure oil line from the transmission to the high pressure pump got no oil at all.I would appreciate it if you could give me some tips

 

[joeeye59]

Jerry, tell me more about how your problem started, and how you diagnosed your hyd fluid pressure, did you use a shop manual and go by the recommended pick ups to check the hyd pressure?

And have you noticed any new hyd leaks, even from last year?

 

[Jerry capobianc]

Jerry, tell me more about how your problem started, and how you diagnosed your hyd fluid pressure, did you use a shop manual and go by the recommended pick ups to check the hyd pressure?

And have you noticed any new hyd leaks, even from last year?

Joe thanks for answering I'll tell u the whole story. My nephew owns the JD a year or so ago he was digging a whole the HYDsys just stopped he had a couple of guys take a look at it he first thing they did was change the main pump with no success they change the filters nothing they told hi the machine had to split and left the machine sat there all this time it couldn't be moved because the backhoe was inyhe hole and they couldn't get it out.he and were talking one day he had said they told he it was scrap I took a look at the machine and told the machine was to good to be scraped I told him I would take care of it I ran JD all my life but never had to repair one. Just the other day I was able to get the backhoe out of the hole and move it. I still can't work on it because it in the woods.Im going to try one thing before I try splitting it the 1inch#12inch long screen I'm going to pull that see if it plugged I don't know if that was done.If there's any thing you can add it will be welcome
Thanks Jerry

 

[joeeye59]

Jerry, I just spilled water on my keyboard so I'm having a hard time typing… don't do anything hastily until you have a good diagnosis. When you said the hyd system stopped working I would think you could still drive it home. When you mentioned main pump I believe your talking about the hyd pump and not the fuel injection pump?

There are many other things to check before taking it all apart.

Sorry but I need to fix my computer's keyboard before I can help

 

[Jerry capobianc]

Jerry, I just spilled water on my keyboard so I'm having a hard time typing… don't do anything hastily until you have a good diagnosis. When you said the hyd system stopped working I would think you could still drive it home. When you mentioned main pump I believe your talking about the hyd pump and not the fuel injection pump?

There are many other things to check before taking it all apart.

Sorry but I need to fix my computer's keyboard before I can help

Joe when the HYD stopped that was it it the engine would run but no forward or reverse no power steering and the front or back bucket wouldn't work

 

[Jerry capobianc]

Joe I don't know if u got the last reply? I'll just repeat it. When the HYD stopped the backhoe was in the hole he couldn't get it out no forward or reverse nothing but the engine would run, I'm i explaining myself?

 

[joeeye59]

Jerry, So the engine runs good, and before this happened did you notice anything different about the way the machine was operating? perhaps just before it stopped working did you hear anything let loose or clunk or went bang?

So what you have is a machine where none of the hydraulics work, and it will not move forward and backwards, right?

I'm sorry about being redundant in asking questions, but I just wanted to make sure I understand what you have going on.

I'd like to mention what happens to me once in a while, that I'd like for you to check for. sometimes as I get in and out of the seat the cuff on my pant leg becomes caught on the shifter and it takes it out of gear with out me knowing I did that, then when I shift the reverser to move the machine nothing happens. A few times when this happens I thought my reverser blew up.

So basically go around and check the obvious making sure its in first gear and not in 4th gear, because I believe an older machine will not move from a dead stop in 4th gear. at lease mine don't depending what position its in, So if your in a ditch all hung on on some rough soil going up hill there might be a good chance by mistake its in 4th gear and or neutral and not 1st gear.... Again to say, I'm just throwing out some silly ideas to check for before digging deeper into the more serious fixing and checking thats got to do with the more expensive repairs.

You'd be surprise how many times I use to find such minuscule problems. Let me know what you find once you check over everything like I mentioned just to be safe its nothing simple that happen by accident.

 

[Jerry capobianc]

Joe give me some time and I'll get back to I have to touch bases with my nephew and he a very busy guy