• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Cost of moving dirt...

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
No worries Brian. There are members on this forum with great stories and experiences to tell, and one thing I've learned over the years is that there are more ways to skin a Cat than Carter has pills. It's sometimes hard to visualize a project and the equipment needed to knock something out. But as in this case, when you see dredge, think wet. Anyway, as I was saying, one shouldn't take any slight over what is posted here. There is a lot of wisdom, trial and error experience, dry -- and wet -- humor, and just plain good advice, and lots of opinion…………

I said 637's can't swim, and that's pretty accurate. But I literally swam in the seat of TS32's trenching out the core for a dam near Buffalo, Wyoming. It was being dug 25 feet from a creek and the underlying material was all river-run gravel. We had to excavate 25 feet below the surface water level, then use select material to backfill, with compaction, and then dig a slurry cut-off trench and backfill that with Bentonite slurry.

We had five TS32's on the job, just up from Colorado and they were in rough condition. One night they were pushing them thru the trench with three D9G pushcats and one had transmission trouble. I had to make several passes thru the trench to get a feel for what was going on with the tranny, and by that time the trench was deep and so was the muddy water.

The seat on a TS32 is about 7 or 8 feet off the ground, and the water was slightly lower than my shoulders as the Cats pushed me thru. About all that was showing above the water on the Cats was the exhaust and the air intake cap. By the way, that water was colder than hell, it was late November. The pushcat operators all stood up on the seats as they hit the deep water, but they still got pretty wet.

After a couple of rounds like this I pulled up by the dirt super's pickup and mentioned that I thought he had gone as far down as he could with scrapers. He responded that I must be a candya$$ if I couldn't take a little cold water and muck. But he pulled over to the trench and watched for a bit, then moved the spread down a few hundred yards and finished the shift.

My mechanics and I had to stay over and wash out radiators and belly pans till the day shift showed up. Oh, the tranny problem turned out to be a loose electrical connector on the rear transmission. Water was getting in it and shorted it when ever it tried to hit 2nd or 3rd gear. Once we blew the water out and tightened the connector, the problem went away. But, with these old hard-used Eucs, there were always more problems popping up.

The project manager called off the scraper spread the next day after watching a couple of rounds like mine. We held a "what the hell do we do now" meeting, and eventually decided to dewater the trench with pumps and continue with the scrapers. That's a story in it 'self………..
 

BrianHay

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
514
Location
Nanaimo B.C
hehe sounds like that was some DAM good fun. I havnt had one in the water yet but I've spent lots of time up north building road over muskeg. Got the scrapers purty deep in that. Wasn't moving anymore though lol
 

crazycajun

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
174
Location
louisiana
we know about the scraper option, what about excavator and adt's? shouldn't need a dozer with the trucks. how many trucks would a 385 handle at 1000ft? could a 365 load 10,000 yards in 10 hours?
 

BrianHay

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
514
Location
Nanaimo B.C
Here is part of an article I copie and pasted from the net for you. Hope its of some use.


uch like a pool shooter
planning to run the table,
site-preparation contractor Lee-Mar
bought a giant Hitachi EX1200
Excavator with an eye on present
and future projects. In April 2005,
Lee-Mar started digging lakes with
the new EX1200 at the new Ave
Maria University outside of Naples,
Florida. It’s a huge 3.2-million-cubic-
yard project that covers 300 to 400
acres. As of mid-May 2006, the
EX1200 had racked up 2,300 hours
digging 13 lakes.
“The EX1200 was a strategic pur-
chase for us,†says Jimmy Thompson,
superintendent for Lee-Mar at Ave
Maria. “We have relationships with
developers that will be buying land
around this university site. We’ve just
been awarded a nearby residential
contract and will move to it in July.
This machine will be here at least
another three years.â€
HIGH PRODUCTION
The water table runs very high at the
Ave Maria project. So, the site requires
constant dewatering to pull the water
low enough to dig lakes out of the
saturated, hard-caked lime. With the
EX1200, Thompson can dig 25 feet
deep, reaching underwater from one
bench. His construction permit doesn’t
let him dewater sufficiently to dig
down two levels, which is why he’s
not running a smaller excavator.
High production is the challenge
at Ave Maria University, which is
on a whirlwind schedule. Average pro-
duction for the EX1200 runs 7,500
cubic yards per day, with a peak of
9,000 cubic yards. The machine packs
a 9.3-cubic-yard bucket and a 14-ft.
9-in. dipper arm.
Thompson says he is “absolutely
happy†with 7,500 cubic yards per
day. In fact, in May 2005, the
EX1200 moved 192,000 cubic yards
of material. “Considering that we
only worked 20 days, that’s just shy
of 10,000 cubic yards a day,†says
Thompson. “With a short haul and
all the cards stacked in our favor, we
could probably average 9,000 cubic
yards per day.â€
When we visited the EX1200, it
was loading five 40-ton articulated
trucks in three passes. Uptime with
“The EX1200 was a strategic
purchase for us. It’s the best
excavator we’ve ever owned.â€
– Jimmy Thompson,
Operations Manager
 

zhkent

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
294
Location
Kansas
Occupation
Earthmoving
Squizzy is right that loading with a loader is faster.
Big loader and rock trucks are "one" of the cheapest ways to move overburden.
For that to work well you would need a solid "floor" on the bottom of your cut.
If the floor is soft the hoe or hoes might be best.
The rock trucks have a lower cost per yard compared to the adt's, mainly because the life expectancy is about twice as long for the rock trucks.
 

crazycajun

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
174
Location
louisiana
well i've been loading 4000 yards a day consistantly with my 330c, 2.99yd bucket. more than three times the bucket capacity, and not even twice the production. maybe im dead wrong thats why i'm asking. but i can put 2 345's and get 10,000 yards no problem..
 

Mack

Active Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
39
Location
North Carolina
Well if you were to go with 2 machines I would go with 2 Cat 345's that seems to be the genral sand loading machine around here.
 

mflah87

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
186
Location
Waltham
Occupation
owner of excavating company
I haven't done to many jobs like this, but I had my Komatsu PC600 loading trailer dumps and we were hauling 104 loads a day at about 2500 yds a day on average. That was a constant flow of trucks with an 8 hour day non stop. I would suggest 2 PC600s or 2 PC750s with a line of trucks so the machines don't stop. I don't know how the numbers will work out. With ADTs and a dozer to push into the 100 foot hole so the trucks don't end up in it.
 

BrianHay

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
514
Location
Nanaimo B.C
That kinda makes sence to me because although the 1200 has 3 times the bucket capacity it doesn't move as fast as the smaller machines. So it has slower cycle times for each bucket. I had the opportunity years ago to try out an 1100. The operator let me run it on his breaks. I noticed a significant difference between how fast it moved compared to the smaller machines on the job when I hoped from one right into the other.
I think you are right in thinking that two 345s will do it. But that is based mostley on research I have done since you sparked my intrest in your project. So take it for what it is worth.
 

crazycajun

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
174
Location
louisiana
well if an 800 size machine has a 7 yrd bucket, should take 4 buckets to fill trucks. should be able to load a truck every 2 minutes at most. thats 30 trucks an hour. at 30 yrds a load. should be 900 yrds per hour. the last job was a round every 5 minutes with my 330. about a 400 ft haul. so if it takes 6 min a round i should have 3 trucks to haul 10000 in 12 hours cause of lunch and such. so if im at $1000 a day per truck, and $2000 a day for excavator then i'd have a cost of $.50 per yard. This probably would happen everyday but i should be able to get at least 7000 yards. then id be at $.71 per yard. still 50% profit. these are probably optomistic numbers, but i think it's worth a shot. dont really have to bid on it, just have give the man a price for cheaper than he can move it
 

zhkent

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
294
Location
Kansas
Occupation
Earthmoving
About the yardage. I think you'll haul a lot more yardage than what you'll get paid on. What I mean is I bet you will get paid embankment yardage.
When you dig up dirt it fluffs up some.
Some others here may have a better estimate of this.
And if the dirt is sandy it won't fluff as much as clay.
My 2 cents might be off but in heavy clays maybe a 25% difference between hauled yardage and embankment yardage.
 

BrianHay

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
514
Location
Nanaimo B.C
Yes that probably is optimistic but maybe you can do it. I dunno. And I guess if you have it figured at 50% profit with those numbers it leaves you some room for error eh?
You will keep us updated on how it works out for you?
 

crazycajun

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
174
Location
louisiana
definately keep you posted.. yeah i get paid on embankment yardage, but being mostly sandy soil the voids wont be much. its still probably a month or so off. they are attempting to move the dirt now, and are doing it at a COST of $1.40 yd. A bunch of concrete guys trying to save money.... so if i'm cheaper then i'm in
 

crazycajun

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
174
Location
louisiana
komatsu 400 on one side and a deere 270 from outside contractor at 85$ hr. and 6 volvo adt's... but trucks are pointing away from dump site while getting loaded, swinging over cabs, swinging 180 degrees. all they would really need is someone who knew what they were doing to go explain to them how to do it efficiently. but when i tell them il save them 5 million in the next 5 years, hopefully they will be happy..
 
Top