Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
I’ll try changing out the relief valve for another one tomorrow and revert. Flushed the engine out today and put fresh oil on as well.
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Cat 428 3054 engine spurting oil from dipstick
- Thread starter Pralhad Birdi
- Start date
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- Tags
- 428 backhoe oil pressure turbo
Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
That would be a correct assumption unfortunately. I will measure the free length though.
mekanik
Senior Member
Are you prelubing the turbo? Its a pain to get oil into that tiny supply hole in that turbo.
I always prelube a turbo upside down through the drain opening first the install and
prelube through the top.
I always prelube a turbo upside down through the drain opening first the install and
prelube through the top.
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Truck Shop
Senior Member
I pre-lube the turbo with a old oil squirt can then install, then I leave intake boot off and
using a long phillips screw driver I insert it into intake compressor wheel holding it/locking
it up while I have someone start the engine. I hold it for a few seconds or until I'm signaled
by the person starting that the oil gauge is at full psi at idle, then quickly remove lockup
tool/screwdriver. Been doing that for 45 plus years, never lost a turbo from lack of start up
oil.
using a long phillips screw driver I insert it into intake compressor wheel holding it/locking
it up while I have someone start the engine. I hold it for a few seconds or until I'm signaled
by the person starting that the oil gauge is at full psi at idle, then quickly remove lockup
tool/screwdriver. Been doing that for 45 plus years, never lost a turbo from lack of start up
oil.
Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
Yep I’ve been pre-lubing with a squirt can before install.
Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
I’ll try it this way once I install this one.
edgephoto
Senior Member
Well at least you know your oil pump is good. The relief is your issue.
If you are still pushing oil out of the dipstick after you may have pressure in your crankcase. This could prevent the oil from returning from the turbo. This effectively means you turbo is not being lubricated.
Once you get the oil pressure issue worked out check crankcase pressure. Rig up a vacuum gauge to the dipstick tube and measure the crankcase pressure. It should be a slight vacuum. If you read pressure there you have an issue with the breather system. Pressure in the crankcase will cause seals and gaskets to leak oil.
If you find sludged oil to be the issue it would reason that the breather system is sludged up too. There are all kinds of methods to try and remove sludge. Marvel mystery oil, kerosene, rissole and many others. Unless it is severe just switching to synthetic and changing it often will eventually clear out the sludge.
If you are still pushing oil out of the dipstick after you may have pressure in your crankcase. This could prevent the oil from returning from the turbo. This effectively means you turbo is not being lubricated.
Once you get the oil pressure issue worked out check crankcase pressure. Rig up a vacuum gauge to the dipstick tube and measure the crankcase pressure. It should be a slight vacuum. If you read pressure there you have an issue with the breather system. Pressure in the crankcase will cause seals and gaskets to leak oil.
If you find sludged oil to be the issue it would reason that the breather system is sludged up too. There are all kinds of methods to try and remove sludge. Marvel mystery oil, kerosene, rissole and many others. Unless it is severe just switching to synthetic and changing it often will eventually clear out the sludge.
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Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
So I’ve changed the relief valve. Should be starting the machine again soon and measuring oil pressure again.
Yes that’s what my initial concern was with pressure in the sump basically pushing back against the turbo drain oil and not lubricating it as it should.
I’ll revert back once I’ve measured the oil pressure with my brand new second hand relief valve.
Oil blowing out dipstick worries me. Have you done a compression test?Might be low in a cylinder, either pressurising drain from blowby and restricting flow or possibly causing a pulsation in exhaust killing the turbo.
High oil pressure could also be a symptom of a spun bearing.
High oil pressure could also be a symptom of a spun bearing.
mekanik
Senior Member
The crankcase vent may also need to be replaced.
Truck Shop
Senior Member
Only two things going cause oil to push out of dip stick tube, {plugged crankcase vent, or
crankcase pressure and or a possible third-it's way over full on oil. The turbo feed is under
pressure, way more oil pressure than any crankcase pressure could possibly block oil drain
tube at turbo. High oil psi is not causing oil to come out dip-stick tube.
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So two issues. High oil psi and crankcase pressure--Betting it's got a bad cylinder, JMO.
crankcase pressure and or a possible third-it's way over full on oil. The turbo feed is under
pressure, way more oil pressure than any crankcase pressure could possibly block oil drain
tube at turbo. High oil psi is not causing oil to come out dip-stick tube.
*
So two issues. High oil psi and crankcase pressure--Betting it's got a bad cylinder, JMO.
Did a lot of Perkins warranty work and if I had a dollar for every 1004/6 Phaser (3054/6 Cat) engine we had to replace a liner in with those symptoms……The ring lands on the pistons were thin and weak and the liners were paper thin. They definitely did not like starting fluid. A proper leak down test and pieces of liner in the oil pan were usually good indicators. It always surprised me how well they ran in that condition.
Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
So oil level is okay, and crankcase vent (in top cover) is okay. So do you reckon I just pull the head and check the rings and liners?
Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
If I do need to replace the liners, are they removable or will I have to strip the block and take it to a machine shop?
Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
Haven’t done a compression test yet, but it would probably make sense to do this before taking anything apart I suppose.
Any idea what sort of pressures I should be looking for?
Compression test Spec is 355-427 psi@250 RPM. Anything below 300 would be a concern or a 50 psi difference between cylinders. as long as the parent bore in the block is not damaged the liner can be changed in frame Perkins offered two different liners finished and unfinished. You Do you want to make sure and order the correct finished liner unfinished liner will have to be machine after installed. they are a pressfit liner and need to be carefully measured after install with a boar gauge. But do the testing first. If you can pull the oil pan I’d do that before I’d pull the head, but I don’t know what kind of clearance that machine has to get the pan off? Happy hunting
Pralhad Birdi
Well-Known Member
Wasn’t able to start the machine today because of electrical issues, but it’s all been sorted now so should be testing pressures tomorrow.
Sump is very easy to pull, nothing in the way, so it was quite easy to change the relief valve as well.
What would I specifically be looking for at the bottom end?
Thanks
Dave Neubert
Senior Member
What happens when you remove the oil filler cap wile running
Do the testing first while you still have oil in the sump to crank the engine over. Don’t forget to disconnect the fuel solenoid while cranking so it doesn’t pump fuel everywhere. You’re going to have to come up with an adapter to replace the injector to hook up your gauge up to.(You will need a set up for diesel engines a standard automotive compression tester won’t do it). You can easily make an adapter out of an old injector. The cold start on that engine is in the intake manifold, so there’s no glow plugs to be able to tap into and do the test. Forgot you already had the pan off. There was no metal in there? Removing the pan would gain you access to look at the liners on the bottom end for any scoring or damage or excessive wear it is better to check them with the head off but if it does have one hole that failed compression you’re probably gonna have to pull the head the pan and the piston anyway. if you do have one cylinder that fails compression double check and make sure you do have valve clearance at TDC Intake.008 exhaust.018.