Antique Case Hydraulic Pump Upgrade

[KyleHasTractor]

Hello everyone,
Looking for those who are more experience with this sort of thing than I am.
My 1963 Case 530 Loader/Backhoe just pushed the seal out of the hydraulic pump: typically a strong indication of a worn out pump as I understand it. Can anybody verify that?

Now of course this pump was used on seemingly any model with the 188D.
Can come off any of these models: 310G, 400, 450, 450B, 450C, 455B, 455C, 530, 550, 580, 584, 584C, 584D, 585D, 586, 586C, 586D. Pump was also used on Fords, New Holland, and Deere.

Case Part Numbers: D31254, D41390

As I understand it, this pump was originally manufactured by Cessna, then Parker/Eaton, then Danfoss and Im sure I am missing somebody in there..

Cessna #'s: 25503RSA, 24527-1AAC or 24504-LAN

SPECIFICATIONSDisp. 2.98 Inł/Rev.
PSI 2,500 Max.
RPM 2,500 Max.
23.2 GPM @ 1,800 RPM
30.6 GPM @ 2,500 RPM Max. Rotation CCW
Mount 2 bolt SAE B mount
Shaft 7/8" dia 13 tooth splined
IN Port SAE 20
OUT Port SAE 16

So nobody makes these pumps anymore I guess because remanufacturer is all I can find available to the tune of about $600.

But I found a specification equivalent from Maine Hydraulics:
P51 Series Bi-Rotational Gear Pump
23 GPM - 33 GPM @ 1200 RPM available.
7/8” 13 tooth spline shaft, 2500 PSI max pressure, 2 x 4 B flange.
$434.70 - $450

Additionally, I found two other products that seem to meet the required specifications:

Honor: 3GB8ZU252L​

Buyers Products: H5036171​

The problem is, I do not have a lot of experience with this sort of thing and am wondering if anyone could confirm or deny the 3 equivalents I found. Of course I am in the middle of a project so time is a factor for me. Im currently using a soft bucket to catch the leaking fluid and carrying on due to necessity.

Any guidance appreciated.

 

[56wrench]

did it actually push the seal out or is it just leaking?

 

[KyleHasTractor]

Pushed about 1/4 of the diameter of the lip seal out.
So I understand this is from back pressure- usually the result of worn intervals.

 

[56wrench]

Also depends on what type of internal seals(diaphragm) it may have

 

[Tinkerer]

Welcome to HEF, Kyle.
Have you removed the pump ?
The input shaft bearing may be worn out and allowing the shaft to wobble.
Those pumps are notorious for having worn out splines on them and also the engine coupling.
New aftermarket pumps are readily available from on-line retailers for about $600.00.
There is a chance those alternative pumps you are asking about will not fit your tractor.
They aren't worth risking the time and money to consider buying one of them. IMHO of course.

 

[56wrench]

Some of the old Cessna pumps had an internal diaphragm to preload the sides of the wear plate against the gears. Some also had bushings instead of bearings on the shafts and wouldn’t handle much side force in a belt driven application

 

[KyleHasTractor]

Engine was just overhauled. Its direct drive off the crank. Flex-coupler and spline coupler are both fresh and alignment is good.
No wobble found in the shaft by feel. (so its small anyway)

We are developing property in the hills and there is no good place to work on anything yet. So tearing it down would be a shade-tree plastic table at best.

Another $600 on this old tractor would be dissapointing. The replacement pumps I listed above are nearly half that price.

I was hoping there was someone on the forum with access to an Honors or Buyers account who was familiar with their product lines and could double check my numbers.

 

[56wrench]

Nowadays $600 for a hyd pump is couch change. The newer machines can run into thousands of dollars for a pump depending on the machine or the brand

 

[stinky64]

Don't cheap out on the pump, thought i'd save some money on a pump for 580C and bought one on ebay for about $300 and it lasted a couple of months, had me chasing my tail trying to diagnose because how can a brand new pump be bad? Spent the $600 on a pump from a reputable seller and still digging 6 years later. Just my 2 cents, it's your time and money.

 

[1693TA]

I've had good service from Buyer's Products hydraulic pumps myself in different mobile applications. Never been into one however so cannot vouch for parts support.

I like Char-Lynn pumps and motors myself as they are well supported in my area. You have the specs needed so finding a suitable replacement will not be difficult. The SAE spline and pilot are very standard and you know the displacement so any hydraulic shop should be able to help.

I would not recommend any non brand name pump myself as parts support can be nil.

This one is marginally larger displacement but would work in your application with possibly adapters for the ports:

Gear Pumps | Hydraulic Pumps | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Gear Pumps,Hydraulic Pumps,Hydraulics, 1.22 cu in HYDRECO GEAR PUMP New. Aluminum housing. Teflon lined bushings. SPECIFICATIONS 1.22 cu in dia 2900

www.surpluscenter.com

 

[KyleHasTractor]

All the pumps I am looking at dont seem to have much parts support anymore. It seems like so many things that the cost of time if worth far more than replacing the product at hand.
Same reason why 95% of all online returns end up in the landfill for some other generation to care about..

Thank you everyone for your responses. Hopefully this thread will serve as a guidepost to others on their path of replacing or updating a 50+ year old pump on their machine. Works up through the 580's and above as well, same specs pump on the 207 engine.

I ended up finding a clean and low hours used pump and while thats is its own gamble, not really for the price I am paying. Thank you to the interweb of human connections.

 

[KyleHasTractor]

Thats a great pump!!

I've had good service from Buyer's Products hydraulic pumps myself in different mobile applications. Never been into one however so cannot vouch for parts support.

I like Char-Lynn pumps and motors myself as they are well supported in my area. You have the specs needed so finding a suitable replacement will not be difficult. The SAE spline and pilot are very standard and you know the displacement so any hydraulic shop should be able to help.

I would not recommend any non brand name pump myself as parts support can be nil.

This one is marginally larger displacement but would work in your application with possibly adapters for the ports:

Gear Pumps | Hydraulic Pumps | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Gear Pumps,Hydraulic Pumps,Hydraulics, 1.22 cu in HYDRECO GEAR PUMP New. Aluminum housing. Teflon lined bushings. SPECIFICATIONS 1.22 cu in dia 2900

www.surpluscenter.com

Makes for 3 replacement candidates!