DEF systems

John C. · Jan 14, 2019

Actually good clean used equipment generally is not available. People are keeping it and running till junk. Rebuilding has been knocked in the head by parts and labor pricing. To add to that, financing for rebuilds dried up twenty or more years ago. Finally, the skilled people who have the ability to rebuild something are in my generation and are retiring out.

The system is set up to cycle out the old and eventually make it illegal to use it on any type of business venture.

Birken Vogt · Jan 14, 2019

John C. said:
Actually good clean used equipment generally is not available. People are keeping it and running till junk. Rebuilding has been knocked in the head by parts and labor pricing. To add to that, financing for rebuilds dried up twenty or more years ago. Finally, the skilled people who have the ability to rebuild something are in my generation and are retiring out.

The system is set up to cycle out the old and eventually make it illegal to use it on any type of business venture.

This is all true but even if we all buy into that way of doing things and "pass the cost on to the consumer", the consumer has got options and one of those options is to do nothing and just live with it the way it was, do not hire anyone, do not do any job, no money changes hands, no work gets done.

We are heading that way in so many different areas, it is scary, and frustrating that all it takes is one stroke of the pen to put it back the way it used to be, but nobody is willing to take up that pen.

DIYDAVE · Jan 14, 2019

In kalifornia, they make you run older tractors, without oil, till the motor dies, then give you a tax credit, of like $7500, to buy a new electronic tier 4 equipped tractor. Shame to see good working machines scrapped, when they are still serviceable. Somewhere there's a video, I posted on this forum, before...

AzIron · Jan 14, 2019

The other thing about us younger guys is we dont know any different on electronic equipment I graduated high school in 09 in my working life I have had less exposure to mechanical engines than not

Cars have always had catalysts since I can remember so it's a way of life for us not saying I dont wish it was simpler but when you dont know any different you just dont know I mean how many guys under 30 know about 2 stroke Detroit's or have seen them in real life

Just saying

JPSouth · Jan 14, 2019

DIYDAVE said:
In kalifornia, they make you run older tractors, without oil, till the motor dies, then give you a tax credit, of like $7500, to buy a new electronic tier 4 equipped tractor. Shame to see good working machines scrapped, when they are still serviceable.

That's without a doubt the most insane thing I've heard in years - I'll be carrying that with me to my grave.

funwithfuel · Jan 15, 2019

That's like Obama's cash for clunkers program 8-9 years ago. Trade in for 4500 of taxpayer money, no matter what condition. Add a silica/ salt water slurry in crankcase after draining the oil. Run it till it dies.
Dealers and dealer mechanics were beside themselves. Because once the ink was dry, it had to be scrapped, never to be titled again. Anything with a V8 or check engine light.
Like new Rams and Broncos. Even saw a couple muscle cars in the local junkyard marked C4C , no parts

Vetech63 · Jan 15, 2019

DIYDAVE said:
In kalifornia, they make you run older tractors, without oil, till the motor dies, then give you a tax credit, of like $7500, to buy a new electronic tier 4 equipped tractor. Shame to see good working machines scrapped, when they are still serviceable. Somewhere there's a video, I posted on this forum, before...

WTF

farmerlund · Jan 15, 2019

Reason # 2,062 why I don't live in Kali.

StanRUS · Jan 15, 2019

DIYDAVE said:
In kalifornia, they make you run older tractors, without oil, till the motor dies

Bull $hit, DIYDAVE post a URL link to that Cal,gov law, regulation or program.

td25c · Jan 15, 2019

I do remember an article like what DIYDAVE mentioned .
Like a " buy back " type program .

All equipment is destroyed & scrapped .

There goal is to get rid of older equipment using other peoples money .

That just aint rite !

https://abc30.com/business/valley-a...p-farmers-buy-newer-cleaner-tractors/4537780/

Now on the other hand if an individual decided for one reason or another they want send a piece of older equipment to the scrap yard and purchase a new model with there own bread that's cool .

DIYDAVE · Jan 15, 2019

td25c said:
I do remember an article like what DIYDAVE mentioned .
Like a " buy back " type program .

All equipment is destroyed & scrapped .

There goal is to get rid of older equipment using other peoples money .

That just aint rite !

https://abc30.com/business/valley-a...p-farmers-buy-newer-cleaner-tractors/4537780/

Now on the other hand if an individual decided for one reason or another they want send a piece of older equipment to the scrap yard and purchase a new model with there own bread that's cool .

Thanks fer stickin up fer me td25c, perhaps I shoulda added that it was a buyback program. I wish I could remember the title to the post, but I think it was DEF related. Hadda video od a big good runnin JD 4XXX type tractor that the owner of a vinyard blew the motor on, sos he could get the subsidy $ on a newer tractor. Maybe somebody better at searchin can find it, but I think it was in the last coupla years...

As for stan, well nobody can read all the posts here, maybe he was just havin a bad day. I aint gonna jump through hoops just to satisfy him, though...

DIYDAVE · Jan 15, 2019

well, whaddaya know, I found it, sorta. apparently the video is now blocked in the US, but here is the post...

Anytime you get out east, stan, you owe me a good breakfast, fer showin your kali gubment at work...

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/the-things-some-people-will-do.71483/

td25c · Jan 15, 2019

Was thinking about this thread today .

Spreading stone with the C-60 Chevy . Was hauling off of a stock pile on site & kept track of time & fuel burn .

Less then 2 gallons per hour & never shut the truck off . Let it idle while loading .

That aint bad for a 52 year old truck with a small block Chevy under the hood .

We probably better keep that truck .

StanRUS · Jan 15, 2019

DIYDAVE said:
Anytime you get out east, stan, you owe me a good breakfast, fer showin your kali gubment at work...

DIYDAVE said:
In kalifornia, they make you run older tractors, without oil, till the motor dies, then give you a tax credit,

No they do not make you run older tractors, blah, blah. The all voluntary programs (like cash for junkers) to receive tax credits and loans for non-gov-contact upgrades, the vehicle (farm, truck, etc) must be scrapped and engine made in inoperable.

Farmer AG equipment per current regulations have no mandatory regristration requirements (YET) or annual usage reporting requirement. Registration is also voluntary; we would like you to report all of your equipment so we know how many diesel engines are out there, LOL

The recent 'Right To Repair' law pushed by John Deere, Western Equipment Manufactures Association and California Farm Bureau will eliminate 'voluntary' upgrading via repowering with emissions compliant engines or retrofitting with after treatment particle mufflers...

In Calif the little guys get FxxKed; owner-operators and small businesses fleets.

mg2361 · Jan 16, 2019

I have definitely seen an uptick in re-powering and repairing of older equipment to put off purchasing FT4 machines.

StanRUS · Jan 16, 2019

mg2361 said:
I have definitely seen an uptick in re-powering and repairing of older equipment to put off purchasing FT4 machines.

I'll check price to repower D8L with Tier4 final out of curiosity. Thinking $168thou; 3X plus price increase compared to new Tier1 3408E.

mg2361 · Jan 16, 2019

StanRUS said:
I'll check price to repower

That 544 I'm currently repowering has a T3 engine and it runs around $15,000 (labor and incidentals not included) after getting core allowance back. Pretty good deal I think.

Tugger2 · Jan 16, 2019

Early in my career we rebuilt crane/log loaders, dozers, loaders, log trucks all from the ground up . Some of the machines would come thru the shop twice . I know labour is expensive, but what is it costing us to remelt this stuff ,water it down with plastic and computers in the cause of making it better . The old way sure kept the pool of talent busy.

AzIron · Jan 17, 2019

Because bean counters dont understand the first thing about fleet management and a rebuild vs repair most think a rebuild is a repair and it's not they also think warranty is a magic thing that makes every thing not company problems

So bean counters have bought into the idea it's to much overhead to staff a shop and rotate machines instead we only own what we think is enough iron and we replace it with a new machine right now not 3 months from now

John C. · Jan 18, 2019

Believe it or not, bean counters rule our society because we base value in dollars.

The problem is that the cost of a new machine can be financed with someone else's dollars. The total cost of that new machine does not count the disposal and recovery of the materials in an old machine. As long as we are allowed to just push that old machine into a vacant place and let the weeds grow through it without any intervening cost of recovery, a new machine will be more cost effective than rebuilding an old one. By using someone else's dollars we give up our control as well.

DEF systems

Senior Member

Charter Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member