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DEF systems

Discussion in 'General Industry Questions' started by Vetech63, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    Typical for Cummins powered service trucks and PTO usage set-up. The 50% PTO time (increased fuel usage) boosted sales of auxiliary diesel power packs. Going APP adds an additional $18-28K on the price of a service truck; all emissions related after Tier1.

    IMO, most mid-range is dry vans, reefers and delivery trucks. All of the used rigs I've looked at shut down after idling 10-12 minutes.

    Emissions controls need exhaust heat to operate per design.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  2. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    I'm in the same situation with cranes. A new crane may have a 400 hp engine to drive it down the road, then when it gets to the jobsite, it sits in one place and just runs the pumps with that 400hp engine. There's no way that you can get that engine warm just running the pumps, you could run them with a -100hp engine easy.

    The crane I ran with a DPF/ regen was hilarious. You couldn't get it to regen automatically when just set up and running pumps. (Link belt and the cat man each blamed the other). If you could get it to start its regen manually from the lower- if you would hit the throttle upstairs (trying to keep working) it would 1/2 the time kick out of regen mode. If it was really hot outside, and you did get it to regen, and it was sitting there doing its thing for 25 minutes (because you couldn't keep working because it would stop the regen), then it sometimes would get too hot under the fiberglass engine cover, and stop the regen because it was too hot in the engine compartment.

    This was 6 years ago or so, and a year ago I worked with the same company- and they still fight to keep that crane running. And it was a $800,000 crane new. I wouldn't own one if they gave it to me.

    What are they supposed to do with the telehandlers? go run hot laps around the jobsite? Its just like the cranes- there's no way you can actually work them that hard.

    I realize the EPA is forcing this on us, but when the engines won't do the work that they should? Progress shouldn't be going backwards.
     
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  3. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Senior Member

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    One solution for the telehandlers would be a fan clutch or a hydraulic fan. At least then you wouldn't be constantly pulling -35C air through the rad and engine bay.

    With cranes, is it possible to install a small, 3-4 litre engine to run the hydraulics? What about a load circuit on the hydraulics? Keep the pumps loaded up and make the engine run under load when in standby?
     
  4. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    Some of the 100 ton plus cranes are two engined, one to drive on the road- one upstairs for pumps. Actually the old grove 25-60 ton (old TM series) were twin engined too. Of course the bean counters don't like this solution, two engines are more expensive than one, especially with the new engines being so much more expensive.

    I think they have also tried cylinder deactivation on some of the all terrains with only one large engine.
     
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  5. Tags

    Tags Senior Member

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    I love that "We" need to brain storm to resolve (insert pretty much any truck/equipment manufacturer) problems! Don't they have people much "smarter" than us to figure it out? $800,000 for a crane that doesn't work, my a$$!! Machines that go into regen all the time because they can't placard the inside of a cab with stickers that say "DO NOT IDLE!!" Or a simple explanation of how to run a manual regen, I guess the cab walls are too full of lawyer stickers so you don't run yourself over or so you know how to Turn on the dome light....the whole emissions thing is a huge joke and we are the ones that pay for all the nonsense....rant over, carry on.....:eek:
     
  6. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    I heard they went back to twin engines . Makes perfect sense given the difference in horsepower requirement between the truck chassis & crane house .

    I always thought it was a more simple system overall with a twin engine rig .

    Not to mention if the truck fuel tank is a little low you can borrow some from the house unit to get back home . :D

    Not that I ever did that . LOL !
     
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  7. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Regeneration cycle .

    When I hear a phrase like that …… I think about lunch time chomping on a hamburger & checking the engine oil & fuel level on the machine .

    LOL !
     
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  8. Tugger2

    Tugger2 Well-Known Member

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    Forget this regen stuff, keep your old Jimmies going. Im sure they burn less fuel in the end anyway, less fuel = less emission?
     
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  9. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    They keep going back and forth- every year or two liebherr changes from one engine to two engine.

    The largest AT I've run that was one engine was a GMK 4085. It had a tip up cab like a cabover semi, but if the boom is in the rest- you can't tip the cab up.

    And you have to tip the cab up, to get at anything on the engine.

    And the fuel filters are mounted on the engine in canisters, directly on top of the engine, directly under the center of the cab.

    Can anyone else see where this path goes, because I've been down it- and the weeds were tall and the language was colorful.
     
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  10. MarshallPowerGen

    MarshallPowerGen Active Member

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    I've been pretty deep in the generator world for a while now, and just glad I've mostly lived in areas without emissions after seeing pictures of the Tier 4 equipment.

    Wouldn't mind getting into the rental world for the variety, but feel you dealing with dummies running a trailer mount 4024 Deere in a Kohler to run a couple of saws on a jobsite. Always fun to finally get the wet stacking bastards set up on full load and launch some chunks out.
     
  11. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    Well, who in here is gonna fix this mess!? Who is going to lead the revolt!? Who is going to stand up and demand answers!? Who, amongst us, is going to be the leader......and throw up the finger to the MAN!? :D
     
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  12. DoyleX

    DoyleX Senior Member

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    Building my armored D9 now. Who wants point? Problem is they always win.
     
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  13. Vetech63

    Vetech63 Senior Member

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    That's for the zombie apocalypse. You need to REFOCUS! ;)
     
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  14. StanRUS

    StanRUS Senior Member

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    mg2361 likes this.
  15. crane operator

    crane operator Senior Member

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    I'm trying Vetech63 to do as much as I can- I refuse to buy the new equipment, and I don't do work in California.

    It hasn't seemed to change much.
     
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  16. 92U 3406

    92U 3406 Senior Member

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    Until it lights the foam sound deadening insulation in the engine bay on fire.....

    Happened to me a couple times. Burning embers drop out the drain hole in the muffler, get caught in the vortex created by the engine fan, then get sucked through the gap between firewall and radiator.

    We have had a couple that actually had a 12" flame burning out the stack there was so much fuel in there. We were probably about 4 seconds from melting the muffler it was white hot lol.
     
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  17. DIYDAVE

    DIYDAVE Senior Member

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    He died several years ago...

     
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  18. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    That's a great point Crane Op !

    With all the boom jammed out over a job would be the worst time you could have an engine failure or some BS shut down over an emissions add on .

    Would almost be like the Captain of an airliner addressing the passengers ….


    " No need to worry folks as we are just loosing altitude due to engine regen cycle , the engines should fire back up fine after a few minutes " . :eek:


     
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  19. td25c

    td25c Senior Member

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    Number 45 has put the Man on the run . LOL ! :D
     
  20. JPSouth

    JPSouth Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed one thing, and an extension of the general idea would go a long way towards making a point. Older clean equipment, III and before, is bringing premium prices around my area anymore. I've had more than one guy tell me if I ever decide to sell out, he wants first dibs on my stuff. I feel for you guys who have to run newer equipment, for whatever reason; my business is geared such that I don't have to. I do have to pay attention to periodic maintenance pretty carefully, but have zero downtime because of electronics/software/firmware/emissions - got enough headaches with the regular stuff, thank you. For my room-temp IQ, simpler is better; I work in some pretty remote country so I often have a long way to go for parts/service. If I can DIY my fixes in the field, I'm days ahead for time.

    My point would be, if enough contractors were going into dealerships and asking about 15 or 20 year old equipment, clean, rebuilt, not abused, and not even considering purchasing new units, something would happen....I think. From what I see on YouTube younger guys starting out seem to not fear substantial debt and are much more comfortable with a chipset or DPF idling them for days - they raise cain with the dealer for loaners instead. Granted, I'm over the hill like a lemming on parade, but I've seen plenty of emissions nightmares as an employee - I don't need any as a one-horse show.