Nige
Senior Member
But this machine was sent to the dealer by the owner to have work done on it John. You’d have thought if nothing else the lack of warning lights would have been on the dealer service report.
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Just bought a used 2012 cat 236b3
- Thread starter 710
- Start date
Nige
Senior Member
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the story, but the way I read it is that the OP bought the machine at auction, got it to his place then sent it in to the dealer to have work done on it. You'd think any half-decent service department would be trying to generate other work on top of what the machine owner was paying them to do.
John C.
Senior Member
I went back and read the thread again to get my self in the right place. I' was confused by some of the prior posts and didn't take this story all the way back. This is taking on the look of a saga. A few things don't add up. Apparently there was a quote for an inspection of $250. That amount of money would not be appropriate for a dealership to "go through it". In my experience dealerships don't quote inspections unless there is a set inspection form the identifies what is done in the inspection. When I was at the dealer the minimum amount for an inspection was $500 and that was limited to readily observable points. It didn't include any troubleshooting or diagnostic tests.
The next issue is dealers don't usually put their most experience personnel on a customer's "skid steer". The might use a second or third year apprentice to look through the machine and write down what they see but they usually will not put the seasoned hand on the unit because those hands are making money on machines owned by customers known to pay bills.
Put yourself in a service writer or manager's position. A guy brings in a skid steer that was sold to him at auction who wants problems identified and quotes for repairs. First of all Cat dealers don't give quotes for repairs, they provide estimates. The manager sees a bottomless pit of repairs and someone who likely might be a little fuzzy about paying the bill. I've seen machines left at a dealership end up with a repair bill exceeding the value of the machine that way. We don't know what was told to the owner, but this is a disaster that no repair facility wants any part of. Add all that up with the current average state of ability for dealer mechanics and you have a saga.
The next issue is dealers don't usually put their most experience personnel on a customer's "skid steer". The might use a second or third year apprentice to look through the machine and write down what they see but they usually will not put the seasoned hand on the unit because those hands are making money on machines owned by customers known to pay bills.
Put yourself in a service writer or manager's position. A guy brings in a skid steer that was sold to him at auction who wants problems identified and quotes for repairs. First of all Cat dealers don't give quotes for repairs, they provide estimates. The manager sees a bottomless pit of repairs and someone who likely might be a little fuzzy about paying the bill. I've seen machines left at a dealership end up with a repair bill exceeding the value of the machine that way. We don't know what was told to the owner, but this is a disaster that no repair facility wants any part of. Add all that up with the current average state of ability for dealer mechanics and you have a saga.
RTSmith
Senior Member
You gentlemen have covered a lot, and there may very well be distinct electrical issues here. But- on a simpler note like the poster, I had similar park switch mis-operation. I have a 242(A) so similar in age. I weigh 230 pounds, but experienced in cold weather that my machine would screech to a halt with the park brake light on. Long story short- vinyl in the seat was so hard my fat arse could not dependably keep the safety switch depressed. New seat complete with switch (EBay much less than my Cat store) solved the cold weather issue. Silly, but very true
Nige
Senior Member
Extremely good point. You can see from the wiring schematic below that the operator present switch and the arm bar switch are linked in series. In other words both have to work for the parking brake to stay off.
The correct seat switch Part Number for A9H02916 is 154-3986 because it doesn't have a suspension seat.
The 173-2543 Seat Cushion Kit that contains new bottom and rear cushions for the existing seat frame shown in the attachment lists at $168 (switch is not included but only costs $8). I have no idea how that compares with eBay prices.
The correct seat switch Part Number for A9H02916 is 154-3986 because it doesn't have a suspension seat.
The 173-2543 Seat Cushion Kit that contains new bottom and rear cushions for the existing seat frame shown in the attachment lists at $168 (switch is not included but only costs $8). I have no idea how that compares with eBay prices.
710
Member
Sorry I didn’t answer these posts. I never got the email that this was replied to.
The alarms went off for about a minute after putting in the fuse and have since stopped. Cat never caught that the fuse was missing but did offer to diagnose why my fuel gauge was inoperable for $119 which I had declined (thankfully).
Cat sent out a service truck this morning and they diagnosed the sensor on the safety bar as the issue. It works fine now. He said my seat sensor had been jumped by the previous owner and is non operable. He showed me where the jumper wire was Incase I ever had an issue with that.
True hours on the machine are 4092 (per the ECM). The mechanic that came to work on my machine was great. I got more from him than I feel I got from them when it was in their shop. He said there are no other codes thrown and he said that since it fired up first turn over in 15 degree weather it’s good sign for my engines overall health.
An interesting thing I noticed when I plugged in the fuse is that my highflow hydraulics are on continuously and I don’t know how to turn them off. The mechanic informed me that my machine has 2 speed programming but thinks it’s not working because the machine is unable to turn off the highflow. When I bought the machine I was told it was 2 speed but the service writer at cat told me that wasn’t true because it didn’t activate when he pulled the trigger button.
The mechanic took a quick look for the auxiliary hydraulics electrical connection but noted that they had been disconnected and removed. He said he was more than happy try and diagnose it but felt I would spend more money than necessary due to the cold weather and the cab likely being frozen down. He said it’s possoble someone has jumped the highflow hydraulics to always be on. What he wanted to do was disconnect the highflow hydraulics from the ecm and see if thatvturned it off.
Does anyone have any thoughts about this and how to do this?
Thanks in adavance.
Nige
Senior Member
In my opinion the best way to temporarily disconnect the high flow would be to disconnect the power to the solenoid valve. Often this will throw a Code but provided you can live with that you should be fine.
Do you have the electrical Schematic..? If not I can post something.
Thinking about it, all your panel lights flashing when you first installed the fuse could simply have been the panels booting up for the first time after a shutdown if they went off afterwards and haven’t come back again.
I’ll have to check to see whether or not your machine was originally built with 2-speed.
Do you have the electrical Schematic..? If not I can post something.
Thinking about it, all your panel lights flashing when you first installed the fuse could simply have been the panels booting up for the first time after a shutdown if they went off afterwards and haven’t come back again.
I’ll have to check to see whether or not your machine was originally built with 2-speed.
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710
Member
Western states cat did the inspection for $250. I got a full pdf document (approx 20-30 pages with pictures). They rated areas as green yellow or red. Green was good, yellow to watch and red needed addressing. There was never a question about me paying the bill. I was left with the impression that the service writer was a go between for the mechanic and I which left a lot lost in translation. As an example I asked for the hours off of the ECM but I was told by the service writer that my machine was too old to store hours, that wasn’t true. I was told the light for over heating was activated on my dashboard, I asked the service writer if there was code stored or it was indicating over heating, he said again they don’t store codes because the machine was too old and the light was activated. So I paid for the diagnosis and repair of an error light that could never have been active because there was no fuse inserted for it.
Once I got the machine home and read the mechanics write ups on the bill it was a stored code.
My impression dealing with my local cat dealer is that they run there office leanwhich leads to limited time to deal with questions like mine. If I had been able to talk to the mechanic things would have been simpler. The mechanic that came out today from the dealer was great. We could talk face to face and we bith understood what was going on. He said the majority of the dealers customers are bigger outfits who just want the machine fixed and give them the bill. He gave me his card and I will ask for him next time I need service. He told me that anything can happen but overall my mechanically my machine is in fine shape.
Also this post is a saga. I felt that leaving everything in one spot is great thing for the next person that’s is looking for an auction machine to see what all it can potentially entail.
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710
Member
I do not have that schematic.
Is that an easy operation for me to perform myself? Would that still allow the 2 speed to activate?
710
Member
Nige,
Correct on the bootup per the mechanic here today. All lights turned off EXCEPT for the high flow light. That light is green and doesn’t turn off.
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ianjoub
Senior Member
710
Member
John C.
Senior Member
I've never tipped mechanics for something that I believe is their job anyway, especially a dealer wrench. I have thrown a spiff in when they do something special, machine down at 2:00 AM and they show up by 4:00 AM and have the machine running for the morning shift at 6:00 AM kind of thing.
Nige
Senior Member
You have a PM.
I had a look at the schematic and TBH the easiest thing to do it to pull the relay in the fuse box that controls the high flow. That is easily accesible and also means you'd be able to replace it if you needed it at any time.
If you go to Grid D-10 of Page 12 of the schematic it shows the HF relay. If you look in the lower fuse panel of the two in the back RH of the cab above the operator seat the HF relay is the 4th one down, marked 29 in the illustration.
I'm also going to make another suggestion here. Sooner rather than later lift the floor palte of the cab and have a good cleanout of the electrical system you find there. The space tends to get full of trash that falls through the gaps and will play havoc with electrical connections, especially if it gets wet.
I had a look at the schematic and TBH the easiest thing to do it to pull the relay in the fuse box that controls the high flow. That is easily accesible and also means you'd be able to replace it if you needed it at any time.
If you go to Grid D-10 of Page 12 of the schematic it shows the HF relay. If you look in the lower fuse panel of the two in the back RH of the cab above the operator seat the HF relay is the 4th one down, marked 29 in the illustration.
I'm also going to make another suggestion here. Sooner rather than later lift the floor palte of the cab and have a good cleanout of the electrical system you find there. The space tends to get full of trash that falls through the gaps and will play havoc with electrical connections, especially if it gets wet.
710
Member
Will do. Thanks Nige. We tried pulling the fuse briefly yesterday with no effect. But I will leave it out for a day this time.
As to cleaning out the machine. I will do that as soon as the weather allows. It’s 15 degrees F here today. It’s cold. I’m sure the machine is filled with “trash”. I’ve pulled out probably 2 cases of crushed dirty beer cans. The mechanic yesterday didn’t believe me until he found 6 himself. They are in every single nook and cranny.
As to cleaning out the machine. I will do that as soon as the weather allows. It’s 15 degrees F here today. It’s cold. I’m sure the machine is filled with “trash”. I’ve pulled out probably 2 cases of crushed dirty beer cans. The mechanic yesterday didn’t believe me until he found 6 himself. They are in every single nook and cranny.
Nige
Senior Member
Not the fuse - the power relay. If you pull that with the machine off then when you key on again it can't possibly power up the High flow because there should be no power to the solenoid from that relay. That is - unless somone has been getting "really creative" with the machine wiring ...........
Based on your comments a "deep clean" is probably in order. You never know, you might find the solution to your HF problem while you are cleaning.
Based on your comments a "deep clean" is probably in order. You never know, you might find the solution to your HF problem while you are cleaning.
710
Member
Nige
Senior Member
Thinking a little about it, if the relay contacts were stuck/welded/whatever together then pulling the fuse would not disable the HF because the relay would not drop out when singnal power from the fuse was removed from it. Maybe you need to check the relay while you have it removed.
