mitch504
Senior Member
.....
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Dam Thieves.
- Thread starter 312King
- Start date
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D&GExcavating
Senior Member
I think I would've been tempted to put some sand in that skid loader as well!
If he can get away with stealing it, you should at least be able to get away with sabotaging it.
If he can get away with stealing it, you should at least be able to get away with sabotaging it.
MrMechanic
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2010
- Messages
- 63
- Location
- State of Washington
- Occupation
- Hopeful Future Construction Equipment Mechanic
koldsteele, I'd do as the previous guy said. drag a bag over his head, and hang him up like a pinata. (not bieng serious, because that would get YOu in trouble) That really blows.
And to the others asking. Roads around my area are 25MPH.
Only places that go above 25MPH, is the 55MPH highway. which leads to nothing but trees on the shoulder. Pedestrians aren't even allowed to walk along the highway at all without a $125 fine. All homes/property items, are well over 50-100ft away from the road. So either way in my area (where my car would be most likely stolen) bad day for the guy who stole my car, general public would be safe for the most part.
(No one in the right mind even dares walking the highway anyways)
Regarding altering airbags, doesn't matter why, it's a felony to alter an airbag and its components. (not kidding, found this out when I inquired about doing somiliar several months ago)
And to the others asking. Roads around my area are 25MPH.
Only places that go above 25MPH, is the 55MPH highway. which leads to nothing but trees on the shoulder. Pedestrians aren't even allowed to walk along the highway at all without a $125 fine. All homes/property items, are well over 50-100ft away from the road. So either way in my area (where my car would be most likely stolen) bad day for the guy who stole my car, general public would be safe for the most part.
(No one in the right mind even dares walking the highway anyways)
Regarding altering airbags, doesn't matter why, it's a felony to alter an airbag and its components. (not kidding, found this out when I inquired about doing somiliar several months ago)
MrMechanic
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2010
- Messages
- 63
- Location
- State of Washington
- Occupation
- Hopeful Future Construction Equipment Mechanic
Next time, contact the FBI. Anything above $700 is a felony. and warrants FBI involvement. If the Cop is that big of a jerk, should've called the FBI, they would have not only ripped him a new one, but also his police chief, and if it wasn't a sheriff, they'd go straight to the Sheriffs Department and rip them a new one as well for not managing the subordinate PDs.
Found out earlier today snooping around while looking for legal methods of modifying my vehicle. That an Officer can't legally tell someone what they should/should not do. And may not impose, express, recommend, or hint to any course of action that could influence a "victims" decisions in anyway.
Why? Because they are NOT lawyers. And also, any theft of any single item above $700 value, outside of a personal Automotive Vehicle, warrants FBI involvement. Town PD is supposed to notify the County Sheriff Department, which in turn notifies the FBI itself if the victim hasn't notified the FBI already.
Any failing on the PDs end, can cost a LEO his badge. Failing to follow proper/federal procedure of law.
And since apparently majority of Heavy Equipment/Construction Thefts, have ties or orgenized crime, 70% of the cases mean FBI needs to get involved.
Just learned this stuff snooping around the Internet today, and thought a lot of you gents may want to know the info for future purposes. (Hopefully not)
OH and another thing about Law Enforcement, since a Police Officer is not a Lawyer, they cannot tell someone they should let someone else go etc. It's the "victims" choice to press chargers or not. And it's the Police Officers job to follow instructions. Police officers are not allowed to provide Legal Counsel in anyway, because it's practicing law without a license to do so. Which, in turn, can cost a LEO his/her badge. Regardless of the incident.
Badge number, and the Officers First/Last name, or just the Last Name. is all you need. First line supervisor for the public, is automatically the Chief of Police, or the County Sheriff. If neither seem to be doing their job, the States Justice Department is the next in line to get a piece of the pie.
Other things I just learned earlier today.
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Jlillie2
Well-Known Member
My next step would be to tell the cop to do either do his job, or be prepared to see his face on the news in the AM.......I'm sure he wasn't looking forward to the paperwork, but tough, that's what he does for a living.
Greg
Senior Member
Many years ago I was on a job in New Jersey. Couple of guys showed up in broad day light to pick up a new D8 which was on rental (not mine or who I worked for at the time)
Security guard let them in, they loaded it up and away they went with it. The local police went to work on the security guard. Sooner than late he sang like a bird. He was in on the whole deal. Got the machine back before it got loaded on ship for export but not by much.
Security guard let them in, they loaded it up and away they went with it. The local police went to work on the security guard. Sooner than late he sang like a bird. He was in on the whole deal. Got the machine back before it got loaded on ship for export but not by much.
2stickbill
Senior Member
Any time you screw up or grind off a serial number the cop should have impounded the machine.Then investigated it.
buckfever
Senior Member
had someone steal $600 worth of chains and binders off my trailer but they left a $200 gr80 20ft chain. a framer had a trailer filled with all the crews tools. They got cleaned out TWICE on the same job. Pipeline crew had two racks of 8 inch sewer pipe and all the Y's and 45's for the job stolen.
joispoi
Senior Member
Figures. All my best ideas seem to be felonies.
There seem to be a lot of felonies on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APsaCeIkWV0 Combine that with a power sunroof....
You could use a firestone airspring connected to a CO2 bottle with a big mouth solenoid valve to get the same results.
The link isn't showing up. Just search for airbag test.
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ke6gwf
Well-Known Member
Warning! This advice could result in death or serious injury, or worse!
@MrMechanic
There are some points you don't seem to be considering in your reckless endangerment of the public.
So somebody steals your car, and as he is driving down the road your defense system kicks and it
And granted, maybe the roads are back country roads with
I remember this one where a guy in an F350 towing a boat was driving toward a school bus... Oh, no gory stories here.
Basic law that applies in all states: If you modify anything from it's Factory condition without approval, not only are you breaking the law, you are criminally and civilly responsible for any harm it may cause. This law isn't often used because usually they are citing for specific infractions so you don't hear about it much, but they use it when needed. I have heard it most often used with Smog control issues, but man oh man, you mess with safety equipment.... There are racing supply companies that quit making steering and brake parts for any roadworthy vehicles because they were too likely to be included in lawsuits just because they hadn't gone through the crash testing that Factory stuff had. It sucked too because they made some great Jeep parts!
I know you are an Expert on the law, and an Expert Mechanic, so I can't claim to know better than you, but I would seem to think there would be a pretty good case against you for tampering with Federally regulated Safety Systems with Intent to cause Bodily Harm. Heck, even the thief would probably win if he sued you!
And don't even get me started on your friend with the Improvised Explosive Device rigged with Intent to kill. That would just be a straight murder charge, well, plus the ATF and FBI would be all over it, being a bomb/home made firearm. It sounds cool, and makes those of us that have had stuff stolen chuckle and ponder, but with most of us, logic kicks in before we start plotting how to kill people and endanger others. Oh, what happens when he gets injured and is in the ICU in a coma and his truck gets towed and ends up going to auction and the mechanic goes to replace the ignition switch and gets his head blown off? How many other scenarios could see it leaving his control?
Some Jeeper friends of mine down in the San Diego area had some really nicely set up rock crawler rigs (think $30-40K+ invested in upgrade parts, and they did the work themselves). They would often run down into Mexico to go wheeling, and then stop in some little town watering hole. They would park all the rigs down the middle of the street and then sit outside and tell tall stories. Well, one guy would park off to one side and leave his keys in the ignition. After a while, they would see somebody sneak up to it, hop in, fire it up and go racing down the street. About the time it got to where they were, it would stop, and the person would jump and run, everybody would laugh, he would weave back to his jeep, flip the hidden electric fuel pump cutoff switch, drive it back to where it had been and wait for the next victim to try for it!
You want to mess with the thief and not risk murdering someone?
Make it so once they hit 25, it locks the tranny in 1st gear and cuts as many injectors as possible while allowing the engine to continue running. (killing the engine at speed makes you lose steering and brakes with you assuming full liability for any accidents caused as a result) Oh, and lock the horn on, leave power on to door locking motors, windows disabled, and flash the light while you are at it.
Ya, no wrecks or anything fun, but they can't get very far like that.
Or, the simple and safe method: Make it so it can't be started/driven in the first place! Shift linkage disconnect/lock preventing it from shifting out of park? Pin/lock preventing the parking brake from being released? (Could be built into the axle if you were worried about them cutting the cable)
Power disconnect to the ECU? Electric Fuel Pump switch? Solenoid valve in the fuel line?
It sounds like you are a better mechanic than I am, so I am sure you can come up with much better ideas that won't endanger DirtHauler's kids.
As you have more recent Legal training than I do (I haven't studied anything today!, I will have to accept your legal advice, but I do have a few questions. (and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night)
In my training a LEO is supposed to tell people what to do. If they are investigating a report of a crime, they have to look at the evidence and decide what the best course of action is, and then advise the parties of the course they have chosen. They then report to their superiors as required by their policies, and if the matter is serious enough, it gets passed to the DA who then decided whether to press charges. With some cases the DA can't do anything unless the victim decides to press charges, and in other cases the DA can press charges regardless of the victims wishes. The victims wishes do sometimes affect what the officer does in the short term, but it is their job to advise the victim on what they recommend! It's not Legal Advice unless they get into the part that the DA takes care of.
In the case of the stolen bobcat, I think the advice to just drop it may have been the best course. If they got insurance for the machine and then recovered the machine, they would have to pay the money back, would be getting a possibly abused machine back and their rates would still be higher. If the person found with it wasn't the one that stole it, what would be the point making life bad for them? If they had bought it, they would be losing their investment, and it would be as bad for them as if it had been stolen! Plus you have all the public costs of police time and courts.
Since most LEO's follow department policy and training, most that provide advice would be doing what they were trained, and at most would get some retraining and a slap on the wrist. You look at how hard it is for the really bad ones to lose their badge with U**** contracts and such, I don't think somebody is gonna lose it because they tried to do their job and solve a problem.
Oh ya, I was gonna ask questions...
Where is your Lawyer License? You seem to be dishing out a lot of legal advice!
Have you talked to any LEO's or Lawyers about your findings on LEO's not being allowed to tell people what to do?
Have you dealt with a LEO as if they were supposed to follow your instructions?
How did that work out for you? :Banghead
After I follow your advice, how do I get a hold of you? Well, I guess I should ask how my lawyer should get a hold of you, because I won't have too many phone calls allowed!
My rule when I am hauling Big Heavy Stuff (or anything else potentially hazardous) is to consider the possible ways what I am loading could end up on top of a minivan full of kids, and plan a way to prevent that from happening.
Most of the people on this forum are very safety conscious, and I would have no fear working in a trench or under a load with them at the controls.
I am amazed that this has not been protested more than it has!
Any of you that haul wide loads, do road work, good operators, etc, know that it is your responsibility to look out for the safety of everybody else because you are doing something inherently dangerous. Some people just don't get that I guess!
Can ya tell this hit a button?
Sorry about the long post folks, but I wanted to explain things clearly enough for all to understand, and I have never been accused of being too quiet.
MrMechanic, I did note that you have begun rethinking the safety issues, so if your thinking has changed to agree with mine, don't take it personally!
A thought for you to remember, most of the stuff on the InterWebs is wrong, either from error or omission. What you may have found could apply in one town or state and not others, or could be old, or most likely is somebody quoting a source such as this thread... Also, the text in some book somewhere may not agree with the way things work in the real world, either due to poor legal systems, or because case law interprets it differently than you might see it. There are a lot of rights that will end you in jail if you try to exercise them because you may be more familiar with them the the LEO just trying to do his job.
:my2c :my2c
Ben~
@MrMechanic
There are some points you don't seem to be considering in your reckless endangerment of the public.
So somebody steals your car, and as he is driving down the road your defense system kicks and it
And the next thing you know, you either find yourself at the wrong end of his shotgun, or, maybe worse, the wrong end of his lawyer for a Wrongful Death lawsuit and maybe a criminal murder/manslaughter charge as well.
And granted, maybe the roads are back country roads with
well, except for the work crews and little old ladies with flat tires or maybe the local sheriff chatting with a speeder, nothing you need to worry about! Oh ya, and I have been on many wrecks were the person ran off the road, hit the bank or a tree and got knocked back into oncoming traffic.
I remember this one where a guy in an F350 towing a boat was driving toward a school bus... Oh, no gory stories here.
Basic law that applies in all states: If you modify anything from it's Factory condition without approval, not only are you breaking the law, you are criminally and civilly responsible for any harm it may cause. This law isn't often used because usually they are citing for specific infractions so you don't hear about it much, but they use it when needed. I have heard it most often used with Smog control issues, but man oh man, you mess with safety equipment.... There are racing supply companies that quit making steering and brake parts for any roadworthy vehicles because they were too likely to be included in lawsuits just because they hadn't gone through the crash testing that Factory stuff had. It sucked too because they made some great Jeep parts!
I know you are an Expert on the law, and an Expert Mechanic, so I can't claim to know better than you, but I would seem to think there would be a pretty good case against you for tampering with Federally regulated Safety Systems with Intent to cause Bodily Harm. Heck, even the thief would probably win if he sued you!
And don't even get me started on your friend with the Improvised Explosive Device rigged with Intent to kill. That would just be a straight murder charge, well, plus the ATF and FBI would be all over it, being a bomb/home made firearm. It sounds cool, and makes those of us that have had stuff stolen chuckle and ponder, but with most of us, logic kicks in before we start plotting how to kill people and endanger others. Oh, what happens when he gets injured and is in the ICU in a coma and his truck gets towed and ends up going to auction and the mechanic goes to replace the ignition switch and gets his head blown off? How many other scenarios could see it leaving his control?
Some Jeeper friends of mine down in the San Diego area had some really nicely set up rock crawler rigs (think $30-40K+ invested in upgrade parts, and they did the work themselves). They would often run down into Mexico to go wheeling, and then stop in some little town watering hole. They would park all the rigs down the middle of the street and then sit outside and tell tall stories. Well, one guy would park off to one side and leave his keys in the ignition. After a while, they would see somebody sneak up to it, hop in, fire it up and go racing down the street. About the time it got to where they were, it would stop, and the person would jump and run, everybody would laugh, he would weave back to his jeep, flip the hidden electric fuel pump cutoff switch, drive it back to where it had been and wait for the next victim to try for it!
You want to mess with the thief and not risk murdering someone?
Make it so once they hit 25, it locks the tranny in 1st gear and cuts as many injectors as possible while allowing the engine to continue running. (killing the engine at speed makes you lose steering and brakes with you assuming full liability for any accidents caused as a result) Oh, and lock the horn on, leave power on to door locking motors, windows disabled, and flash the light while you are at it.
Ya, no wrecks or anything fun, but they can't get very far like that.
Or, the simple and safe method: Make it so it can't be started/driven in the first place! Shift linkage disconnect/lock preventing it from shifting out of park? Pin/lock preventing the parking brake from being released? (Could be built into the axle if you were worried about them cutting the cable)
Power disconnect to the ECU? Electric Fuel Pump switch? Solenoid valve in the fuel line?
It sounds like you are a better mechanic than I am, so I am sure you can come up with much better ideas that won't endanger DirtHauler's kids.
As you have more recent Legal training than I do (I haven't studied anything today!
, I will have to accept your legal advice, but I do have a few questions. (and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night)In my training a LEO is supposed to tell people what to do. If they are investigating a report of a crime, they have to look at the evidence and decide what the best course of action is, and then advise the parties of the course they have chosen. They then report to their superiors as required by their policies, and if the matter is serious enough, it gets passed to the DA who then decided whether to press charges. With some cases the DA can't do anything unless the victim decides to press charges, and in other cases the DA can press charges regardless of the victims wishes. The victims wishes do sometimes affect what the officer does in the short term, but it is their job to advise the victim on what they recommend! It's not Legal Advice unless they get into the part that the DA takes care of.
In the case of the stolen bobcat, I think the advice to just drop it may have been the best course. If they got insurance for the machine and then recovered the machine, they would have to pay the money back, would be getting a possibly abused machine back and their rates would still be higher. If the person found with it wasn't the one that stole it, what would be the point making life bad for them? If they had bought it, they would be losing their investment, and it would be as bad for them as if it had been stolen! Plus you have all the public costs of police time and courts.
Since most LEO's follow department policy and training, most that provide advice would be doing what they were trained, and at most would get some retraining and a slap on the wrist. You look at how hard it is for the really bad ones to lose their badge with U**** contracts and such, I don't think somebody is gonna lose it because they tried to do their job and solve a problem.
Oh ya, I was gonna ask questions...
Where is your Lawyer License? You seem to be dishing out a lot of legal advice!
Have you talked to any LEO's or Lawyers about your findings on LEO's not being allowed to tell people what to do?
Have you dealt with a LEO as if they were supposed to follow your instructions?
How did that work out for you? :Banghead
After I follow your advice, how do I get a hold of you? Well, I guess I should ask how my lawyer should get a hold of you, because I won't have too many phone calls allowed!
My rule when I am hauling Big Heavy Stuff (or anything else potentially hazardous) is to consider the possible ways what I am loading could end up on top of a minivan full of kids, and plan a way to prevent that from happening.
Most of the people on this forum are very safety conscious, and I would have no fear working in a trench or under a load with them at the controls.
I am amazed that this has not been protested more than it has!
Any of you that haul wide loads, do road work, good operators, etc, know that it is your responsibility to look out for the safety of everybody else because you are doing something inherently dangerous. Some people just don't get that I guess!
Can ya tell this hit a button?
Sorry about the long post folks, but I wanted to explain things clearly enough for all to understand, and I have never been accused of being too quiet.
MrMechanic, I did note that you have begun rethinking the safety issues, so if your thinking has changed to agree with mine, don't take it personally!
A thought for you to remember, most of the stuff on the InterWebs is wrong, either from error or omission. What you may have found could apply in one town or state and not others, or could be old, or most likely is somebody quoting a source such as this thread... Also, the text in some book somewhere may not agree with the way things work in the real world, either due to poor legal systems, or because case law interprets it differently than you might see it. There are a lot of rights that will end you in jail if you try to exercise them because you may be more familiar with them the the LEO just trying to do his job.
:my2c :my2c
Ben~
Thank you Ben!!
Deeretime
Senior Member
One that shows that carma can come back around. This guy 20+ years old decided after he broke some windows on our new packer decided to stab the tires with his pocket knife.
After 20 or more stabs the knife folded over and the guy lost 2 fingers, My dad thought that was punnishment enough and decided not to press charges if he paid for the windows, and little to no dammage to the tires.
After 20 or more stabs the knife folded over and the guy lost 2 fingers, My dad thought that was punnishment enough and decided not to press charges if he paid for the windows, and little to no dammage to the tires.
ke6gwf
Well-Known Member
Knife Safety lecture
And that is why I tell my youth group kids and the wilderness survival/primitive skills classes to get locking blade knives! You never know when you are going to need to stab tires, and you want to protect your fingers.
I mean, it isn't safe to use a non-locking folding knife for crafts and whittling.
Oh, and it should have some sort of guard/dip/bump to prevent your hand from
sliding down the handle onto the blade, that ain't pretty!
Ben~
(and what does everybody get? Swiss Arsmy Knives! Grrr. :Banghead )
And that is why I tell my youth group kids and the wilderness survival/primitive skills classes to get locking blade knives! You never know when you are going to need to stab tires, and you want to protect your fingers.
I mean, it isn't safe to use a non-locking folding knife for crafts and whittling.
Oh, and it should have some sort of guard/dip/bump to prevent your hand from
sliding down the handle onto the blade, that ain't pretty!
Ben~
(and what does everybody get? Swiss Arsmy Knives! Grrr. :Banghead )
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Mr Machanic
....................would it help your cause is the car remained stationary??
http://videosift.com/video/Anti-Car-Jacking-Device-The-Serious-One
Cheers
mitch504
Senior Member
Hey Marksan, it would surely be satisfying, wouldn't it.
ke6gwf
Well-Known Member
Heh, a guy over in the UK somewhere built something like that. I think he had a car and motorcycle set up.
They got confiscated...
And to continue my party-pooping, just remember that any injury you cause another person for any reason other than defending yourself or someone else from Imminent Threat of Bodily Harm is an assault, in these cases with a deadly weapon. (and the burden of proof is on you that you were justified)
And I would make my flamethrowers so I could control which direction they shot! No need to toast the kids on the sidewalk when the bad guy is on the other side of the car, besides, it wastes a lot of fuel....
(and don't forget the forward and rear-facing nozzles to get the attention of tailgaters and slowpokes)
Ben "Mad Max" Blackburn
They got confiscated...
And to continue my party-pooping, just remember that any injury you cause another person for any reason other than defending yourself or someone else from Imminent Threat of Bodily Harm is an assault, in these cases with a deadly weapon. (and the burden of proof is on you that you were justified)
And I would make my flamethrowers so I could control which direction they shot! No need to toast the kids on the sidewalk when the bad guy is on the other side of the car, besides, it wastes a lot of fuel....
(and don't forget the forward and rear-facing nozzles to get the attention of tailgaters and slowpokes)
Ben "Mad Max" Blackburn
2stickbill
Senior Member
Dang glad I live in Texas not Cal.Here if we catch them stealing or vandalizing our property instead of dialing 911 we dial 357.Then call for a body bag.
boveyfarmer
Member
Contractor here in the West of England went to work on a monday morning to find his dozer had gone, less than 12 mths old.
Contacted the Police and the tracker firm, it was located by tracker in Poland on it's way to the Russian Border, the Polish Police grabbed it before it went for ever.
He got it back!!!
Contacted the Police and the tracker firm, it was located by tracker in Poland on it's way to the Russian Border, the Polish Police grabbed it before it went for ever.
He got it back!!!
Booby trapping things isn't smart in most states and will allow you to spend some time with whoever it was that tried steeling or breaking in......cause you will be sharing a cell with them. It will also allow them to sue you for damages. If any bystanders are injured or killed you will be charged for that too.
Heck a few years back a guy broke into a home of a family on vacation. His last stop in the home was the attached garage. He entered the garage through the kitchen door that had an auto lock and the garage door opener was broken too. He spent several days trapped in the garage by accident subsisting on pop and dog food. While in jail for the break in he successfully sued the homeowners insurance to the tune of $70,000. And this guy did get his money because the insurance company decided not to appeal the decision/award because of the cost.
As far as giving legal advice is concerned your best course of action is to tell someone to consult their state/local police and or a lawyer. If you give any other advice and as a result someone is injured you become liable. If by following your advice they break the law you can be charged as an accomplice.
I even know of a case (we know the family) of a kid assaulted by a teacher. The school did inform the parents but told them that if they wanted to press charges that they would have to pay to prosecute the teacher. It wasn't until we told the then county sheirf what had happened (2 of our kids witnessed the assault) that he went to their home and told them if they wanted to charge the teacher all they had to do was file a complaint and the county would take care of it from there. Because the school had already canned the teacher they let the matter drop. But the school could have been in big trouble over telling them what they did, giving them bad legal advice in that case made the staff subject to being investigated at a minimum for aiding abedding.
Rick
Heck a few years back a guy broke into a home of a family on vacation. His last stop in the home was the attached garage. He entered the garage through the kitchen door that had an auto lock and the garage door opener was broken too. He spent several days trapped in the garage by accident subsisting on pop and dog food. While in jail for the break in he successfully sued the homeowners insurance to the tune of $70,000. And this guy did get his money because the insurance company decided not to appeal the decision/award because of the cost.
As far as giving legal advice is concerned your best course of action is to tell someone to consult their state/local police and or a lawyer. If you give any other advice and as a result someone is injured you become liable. If by following your advice they break the law you can be charged as an accomplice.
I even know of a case (we know the family) of a kid assaulted by a teacher. The school did inform the parents but told them that if they wanted to press charges that they would have to pay to prosecute the teacher. It wasn't until we told the then county sheirf what had happened (2 of our kids witnessed the assault) that he went to their home and told them if they wanted to charge the teacher all they had to do was file a complaint and the county would take care of it from there. Because the school had already canned the teacher they let the matter drop. But the school could have been in big trouble over telling them what they did, giving them bad legal advice in that case made the staff subject to being investigated at a minimum for aiding abedding.
Rick