who makes the BEST dozer

[alco]

You have to remember that when cat came out with the d10,the 9 got smaller,thats an old 9 and im not sure of the horsepower but the komatsu 375a is pushing over 650 horse and thats derated for the alttitude.

The 9 didn't get smaller until Cat renumbered the upper end of the line when they changed the 10 to the 11N, the 9L to the 10N and the 8L to the 9N. The 375 is also rated at only 610 flywheel hp for the latest model, and there is no derate for altitude here since we're only at 1200 feet.

The 375 has more grunt than a 10, it also has more weight. What it lacks is speed, precise blade control due to being so damn nose heavy,a comfortable ride, and any degree of reliability once it has a few thousand hours on it. Our 375 is running in the low 50s for availability, and our 475 was in the mid 30s.

I've run circles around our 375 with a 10R. While he could push more in one pass, I was moving more material by simply having faster cycle times.

 

[ziggy]

The 9 didn't get smaller until Cat renumbered the upper end of the line when they changed the 10 to the 11N, the 9L to the 10N and the 8L to the 9N. The 375 is also rated at only 610 flywheel hp for the latest model, and there is no derate for altitude here since we're only at 1200 feet.

The 375 has more grunt than a 10, it also has more weight. What it lacks is speed, precise blade control due to being so damn nose heavy,a comfortable ride, and any degree of reliability once it has a few thousand hours on it. Our 375 is running in the low 50s for availability, and our 475 was in the mid 30s.

I've run circles around our 375 with a 10R. While he could push more in one pass, I was moving more material by simply having faster cycle times.

The 375a has a higher rear drive then just the old 375,thats why the rides now smoother and if I put the computer in manual shift and select third high range it is also faster then the 10.You can also bump the horsepower up to unheard of levels.

I'll get back to you on the top speed but when we walk the machine to new locations with the other cats I leave them in the dust by selecting manual third high range,close to 15 kph If I remember the speedo right from the last time.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

The 375a has a higher rear drive then just the old 375,thats why the rides now smoother and if I put the computer in manual shift and select third high range it is also faster then the 10.You can also bump the horsepower up to unheard of levels.

I'll get back to you on the top speed but when we walk the machine to new locations with the other cats I leave them in the dust by selecting manual third high range,close to 15 kph If I remember the speedo right from the last time.

Not really relating to the Cat/Komatsu discussion, but at $60K to $80K for a new undercarriage, I would fire my operator if I found him walking my machine to a new job in 3rd gear unless there was a raging fire on his tail he was trying to outrun.
Speed is the single fastest way to ruin the U/C on these machines.

 

[ziggy]

Not really relating to the Cat/Komatsu discussion, but at $60K to $80K for a new undercarriage, I would fire my operator if I found him walking my machine to a new job in 3rd gear unless there was a raging fire on his tail he was trying to outrun.
Speed is the single fastest way to ruin the U/C on these machines.

Working in the oilsands is the worse way to ruin an undercarriage,you use third gear when the guys paying the bills tell you to.They came with third locked out and it was the owner who told the mechanics to unlock third.

Ive also used it in the mines on the d9's and d10s and the undercarriage wears out the same time regardless,some operators never take a machine out of first so its easy to see the comparison after 12,000 hours.

An oilsands dozer is lucky to get 1000 hours on the undercarriage as they are working in pure silica sand mainly and it's very abrasive.
At the first 250 hour service the rails on the komats I run were allready worn close to 20% but wear is higher when brand new.

 

[JDOFMEMI]

OK, Point taken.
I guess I will have to re state my saying. Speed is the second fastest way to ruin an undercarriage.
I understand that when the owner says to, run it how they say. I guess there is enough money made to pay those kind of costs. I am sure they have looked at other options, but it still is being done this way. Must be the only thing that works.

 

[EGS]

Not really relating to the Cat/Komatsu discussion, but at $60K to $80K for a new undercarriage, I would fire my operator if I found him walking my machine to a new job in 3rd gear unless there was a raging fire on his tail he was trying to outrun.
Speed is the single fastest way to ruin the U/C on these machines.

One of our Super's fired a guy a couple weeks ago for backing up one of our push-cats in 3rd gear. Profits are too thin for doing something like that.

 

[ziggy]

One of our Super's fired a guy a couple weeks ago for backing up one of our push-cats in 3rd gear. Profits are too thin for doing something like that.

Not in the oilsands,you dont do what they want and they will find someone who will.They also pay very well,if they want you to go into the deep stuff and the chance of getting stuck is high,they will pay for the extraction and recovery.

With a over a hundred thousand hours on dozer,I have never seen where one has broken or wore prematurely from useing third gear.

Same with shoveling tracks,I have never seen a dozer wear out early because the tracks werent shoveled.

 

[DPete]

Not in the oilsands,you dont do what they want and they will find someone who will.They also pay very well,if they want you to go into the deep stuff and the chance of getting stuck is high,they will pay for the extraction and recovery.

With a over a hundred thousand hours on dozer,I have never seen where one has broken or wore prematurely from useing third gear.

Same with shoveling tracks,I have never seen a dozer wear out early because the tracks werent shoveled.

You have never seen flat carrier rollers from pluged swing frames ? With all due respect I'd never put a machine of mine in that slop nor run in 3rd. Seems like there must be a better way

 

[ziggy]

You have never seen flat carrier rollers from pluged swing frames ? With all due respect I'd never put a machine of mine in that slop nor run in 3rd. Seems like there must be a better way

I have never seen them flat unless the bearing was siezed,but then in a d10 or big dozer they have more then enough power to free a stuck roller,in some bush cats I have seen them take the roller out in the winter and stick a chunk of wood there.

I spent 3 years in the arctic running dozer and hoe in minus 70 celsius and we never shoveled tracks or experienced flat rollers,ice makes a good roller.

 

[LDK]

Not in the oilsands,you dont do what they want and they will find someone who will.They also pay very well,if they want you to go into the deep stuff and the chance of getting stuck is high,they will pay for the extraction and recovery.

With a over a hundred thousand hours on dozer,I have never seen where one has broken or wore prematurely from useing third gear.

Same with shoveling tracks,I have never seen a dozer wear out early because the tracks werent shoveled.

Just out of interest, how old are you?

 

[ziggy]

Just out of interest, how old are you?

50 next year.

I've been around and have been running big iron since I was 14 every year except one when I tried a stint as a junior pipeline inspector.

I have also ran the worlds largest loaders,dozers,graders and rock trucks so I'm speaking from experience.I have seen a lot of things with 22 of those years in a hard rock strip mine and I have also heard a lot of things after that many years I have found to be B.S.
We had over a dozen dozers in the mine at any time,d10's and 11's and would hour them out at 12000 hours to get a finning 98% rebuild,they would be worn out totally and not once did the undercarriages wear out any quicker from not shoveling tracks.
Same with the oilsands were they have hundreds of dozers and the worlds largest equipment.
Now pipelining is a bit different story where we were working in clay,we would shovel out the rollers there but if it's winter you allways pack your track frames with snow before starting any excavation,a little trick I learned a long time ago,same with coal,it wont freeze and will keep your tracks from freezing.
In the arctic the track frames on the hoe would plug with melted permafrost from the silt but the rollers never got flat spots,the heat from the friction would quickly melt any ice.

 

[loggah]

I seen the top rollers wear out in 2 weeks on a cat D9G because of not cleaning the tracks. We were working in a construction debris area of a landfill, it was a slurry of gypsum from a sheetrock factory. That stuff acted just like cement building up around the top rollers and put enough of a drag on the rollers that the chains were wearing at them steady. as far as third gear in reverse if they didn't want you to use it they wouldn't put it in there!! put 3 657's in a long loading push and cleaning up the pit floor and you will use it!!! Don

 

[ziggy]

There is a time to shovel rollers out but most of the time it's a waste of time,all depends on the material.

I agree with the third gear comment,I have had the boss drive next to me pipelining before and hold up 3 fingers,that means pick up the pace and grab third gear.

 

[JimBruce42]

I'm gonna have to use my inexperience and agree to disagree about shoveling and 3rd gear... I've seen D5's get stuck fast from improperly shoveled tracks in the winter. And 3rd gear might be a good idea (in addition to out running fire) if you're a push cat working with 657's or if the boss wants to pay for it, but not always. I saw two of our d8's strippin topsoil on the same job a few years ago... one never went higher than 2nd the other one spent most of his time in 3rd... at the end of the day, the bigger pile was in front of the D8 that was in second gear.

Every situation is different I agree, but just cause the dozer moves faster, doesn't mean it pushes more. I'm just saying:beatsme

 

[alco]

The 375a has a higher rear drive then just the old 375,thats why the rides now smoother and if I put the computer in manual shift and select third high range it is also faster then the 10.You can also bump the horsepower up to unheard of levels.

I'll get back to you on the top speed but when we walk the machine to new locations with the other cats I leave them in the dust by selecting manual third high range,close to 15 kph If I remember the speedo right from the last time.

It may have a better ride than the older machines, but the contractors 375s we've had on rental are still rougher than the comparable Cat. I sincerely doubt you can "bump the horsepower up to unheard of levels" since they wouldn't build a feature like that into machine that you could access without a tech's computer. If you look at their specs on the machine, they always post the highest numbers to make their machine appear to be above everyone else....everybody does for that matter.....and they still only list the power as 610 flywheel hp. They also list the top speed as 11.8 km/h in forward, so unless you run it around everywhere in reverse, I think your speedo is off a bit. As for leaving the Cat's in the dust, maybe if you were all running in the same gear it would help. Once again, look at the specs, Cat has higher speeds in every gear except 3rd reverse, those are the same for both.

in a d10 or big dozer they have more then enough power to free a stuck roller

As for having enough power to free a stuck roller......that really has nothing to do with it at all. When a roller is not turning, whatever the reason may be, the rails simply slide over the roller and wear it flat since there is not nearly enough resistance between the two to turn it. I've seen tons of flat rollers from not shovelling tracks up here, but it's never a concern as it costs more in down time to keep the tracks shoveled than it does to change out a roller when it goes to the shop.

 

[LDK]

Ziggy,

Are you by any chance related to KMAN9090 or maybe his interloping brother?

ALCO has pointed out some of the errors in your posts, there are more, but to tell you the truth I can't be bothered to point them out to you. I am 55 and still seeing and hearing a lot of BS, obviously.
All these years thinking that size doesn't matter and now I learn that it does when it comes to experience!!! :notworthy

 

[d4c24a]

cleaning

cleaning ot track frames also allows a visual inspection ,hard to do if its full of crap
when i brought my little D4 had flat spots on the top rollers ,to the point of no return ,rest of undercarrige genuine cat at 95% good ,no seized bearings ,just packed with crap :beatsme

 

[RonG]

Not shoveling the tracks in this area will reward you with a machine that is frozen solid and will not move.You wouldn't last too long as an operator around here.Trying to force a machine to move that is frozen solid is very hard on the gear train and the ring and pinion won't take that kind of abuse very long.Ron G

 

[loggah]

The worst machine i ever owned as far as keeping the top rollers free was a early cat 225 excavator. Only a few inches between the track frames and the rollers.in freezing weather you could shovel it out and 20 minutes later the mud or snow would be freezing it again. There was a reason the old timers used to take the rollers off and make top sliders in the winter. Don

 

[jimrr]

frozen mud will lock up a roller and if it's cold, friction will be a long time thawing it out. i've a couple flat spots on mine now. they'll probably find some synthetic material to replace rollers in a few years.