union, non-union and self employed poll

[buckfever]

I cann't speak for other parts of the country but around here the iron workers and operators union do a lot of good. They alow companies to hire skilled workers in large forces very quickly. Now i'm not union and never have been but it seems that some on this thread have a bad tast for all unions because of a few bad ones. No company can aford to employ and train all the people to do large jobs like highway and major development work. Where else can you find a person well trained at a known price to do a job.

In pa where not a right to work state so if you want to work somewhere that is union you don't have a choice. IMHO this is bs. If your union's got the goods you should have to compete in the market place.

Being from the former steel making juggernat of the world I have seen the product of the bad union mentality. guys saying "screw the company they can afford it" or "I'm not working to make them rich and me dead". For those people that think that way just remember if you don't make "the man" money there's no reason to have you around. A paycheck is a compromise. you produce X amout and you get Y. don't make X you get no Y.

I have respect for union tradesmen (and women) they provide a much needed sevice. As for the entrenched unions that cause nothing but greef and strain between labor and management are counterproductive. that crap i'v heard like "get someone else thats not my job" makes my blood boil. your here to work. Don't like it go somewhere else.

 

[knucklebuster]

I have been non my whole life and have been self employed at times.

I don't feel I'm above the union. Just never needed to join one.
I will say if it wasn't for the unions I wouldn't be making the money or have the Benny's. They do drive the cost up and it effects the whole industry.

 

[dayexco]

They do drive the cost up and it effects the whole industry.

boy, that's a mouthful

 

[Buckethead]

I had to edit the picture, to comply with the forum rules on censored words.

 

[EGS]

This will be closed before long.:Banghead

 

[digger242j]

This will be closed before long.:Banghead

Not if everybody sticks to forum policy and makes comments that are NEUTRAL in nature. A simple yes or no will suffice. A little further detail won't hurt, but if a post goes into any sort of editorializing one way or the other on the subject, then, yeah, that will be considered out of line. :cool2

It looks to me like the two posts above EGS' comment constitute what the NFL would call "offsetting penalties." Let's just move forward from here.

 

[Buckethead]

Sorry about the word in the picture!

 

[digger242j]

Don't worry about it. But we do need to enforce the rules consistently, so I couldn't pretend I didn't see it.

 

[ke6gwf]

Whew! This has been an exciting thread! The suspense, the angst, wondering if it was gonna get shut down, then the joy as peace broke out and everybody admitted that both sides have valid points, they should make a movie out of it. (SAG all the way of course..


I have been self-employed as well as working for non-union construction companies and a private college. I have considered joining a union because I have interest in both cranes and trains, and I do not know any way to work with either of those (other than short stints when a crane was hired or rented at a site I was on) with out being union.
I have seen enough negatives with unions in my area to keep me away though.

I worked for a construction company that did a bunch of local school remodels and new work for about 6 years (until we ran out of schools!) Since it was Gov. work we got PW, and a lot of the subs were Union. I got a lot of abuse from them, verbal assault, some minor physical, nasty pranks, basically being treated (and told to my face) like I didn't deserve to be on the same site as them, not because of my skill level (I was a decent Skytrak operator IMHO , but because I didn't have the right sticker on my bumper.
My jobs have usually been the flexible, fill-in type, you know, whoever needs help the most, I am there, from operating to driving to wrenching to welding to sweeping and collecting trash. That has often put me working with said union workers when we were rushing to finish something on overtime or doubletime. I got told to slow down or take a break so many times it wasn't funny. I've gotten yelled at for making others look bad, I've had the parental types sit me down and explain how if we get too much work done today because I am working too hard, then the bosses expect that much tomorrow too, so we should keep their expectations low.
This has been from a wide range of unions too, from drywallers to Steel to Sanitation.

On the flip side, some of the best (insert field and job title) I have seen are Union, and I counted it a privilege to be able to work with, and learn from them.
I have also gotten plenty of abuse from non-union workers, and in some cases I am sure I deserved it! My beef is when the abuse is based entirely on the union-vs-scab issue. Funny thing is, now that I think about it, some of the worst insults I have gotten were Union members working for the same non-union company as I was, complaining that I was a scab! (I had doubts they were in good standing with their unions based on the work I saw...)

Interestingly enough, the one Unionized company I worked for is also the one that never paid me PW even though most of the work was for Caltrans!
They needed a driver/operator/tooled-up mechanic, and couldn't afford all 3 through the hall, so hired me quietly. I knew they were billing out at full PW rates and only giving me ~1/3 of it, but they paid me what we had agreed to at the beginning, and it was the only way they could cover the overhead and keep us working. (they were also paying some of the Union guys less than scale just to keep them working) If they recover someday, well, I might have a little sit down with them..

One thing I would love is the Union training. I think it was Qball that had some videos up of the sand paving indoors in the winter time. I would pay money to be able to spend some time there! (if I had any...)
I am learning paving now, but usually I am needed to haul material and can't play on the machine. It kinda sucks!
If I decided I wanted to stay in this field I might join a union for the training if nothing else, but then they try to control what you do if they run out of work for you. (based on what I have heard from local members)


Wait! Don't flame me yet!

I see a lot of benefits to Unions, but I also see a lot of downsides.
In my area most of the downsides I have seen were due to members that thought they were better than others. It reminds me a lot of religion and politics...

So, if you are Union, good for you, hope you are happy, but please don't attack or ridicule those of us that for whatever reason are not.

If you are non-union, good luck and thanks for all the fish! (oh, and don't bash people because they are Union!)



I would like to thank Steve et al., for providing this site and keeping it aggressively neutral. It is quite a relief from many other sites and real life!



Now you may ridicule me for anything else that I may deserve, just not for having a naked bumper! :drinkup

Ben~

 

[digger242j]

It reminds me a lot of religion and politics...

Yeah. And discussion of those two topics is outright prohibited/regulated here as well, and always has the staff standing by with fire extinguishers in hand. Go figure... :beatsme

 

[Bluwenis]

IUOE Local 302 I don't know how I could be a crane operator without my union. Non-union in my region makes 30 less an hour with no benes

 

[Bluwenis]

I know the union thing is sensitive here, but some of us work in strong union states and others don't. I say yes, if you don't, thats okay with me.

 

[Bluwenis]

I see it a different way. I feel the unions keep wages fare, without them I think many trades would be paid less. As for the bennys, Im always surprised by carpenters and labor who have none. I support my brothers, but I also support my fellow operators the right to choose.

 

[Reel hip]

Wow can't believe so many of us are self employed!!!! I guess more than just me like the long hours and no pay! Hahaha

 

[Dwan Hall]

I'm union, Local 302 and haven't had a union job sense 1986. 30 years this year. I get a bill every 3 months for my dues. I also get an invention to the Christmas party. other then that I do not know they exist. If I relied on the union for anything I would be homeless, starving, sick with no medical, etc. I manage to find my own work, set my own wage, pay my own medical, schedule my own time off. Pay for my own education. save and invest for my retirement. I set my own rules and am responsible for my own actions. If I have a job related complaint I go to the man in charge not someone who says they represent me. What has the union done for me? Well they practice medicine without a license. Every 3 months they give me a walletpendectome. in other words they do surgery on my wallet to make it lighter. Why do I keep paying dues? I hope some day it will pay off.

 

[770G]

I work in a union job, and have for been for 9 years. If you ask me if I'm a supporter of unions....guess I gotta say yes. Do I think we'd be better off without one, probably. It's simple you work an honest days work, you take home a pay cheque and as long as the works there you'll always have a job. Unions breed, whiners, complainers, and lazy slugs... and then protects them from getting fired. Is it right "HELL NO". 4years ago I was put on strike for 7 weeks, we didn't gain JACK!!!! and lost 7weeks pay that damn near sunk my family. And right now as we speak my "wonderful union" is in talks for a new contract which has expired Dec/31/11. And of course things aren't going well.

So you may wonder why I stay? For where I live this is a good payin job, and a job I love to do. It's close to home which gives me time for my wife, my son & daughter, and enjoying life.........do I think unions are good???? I'll let you know as soon as I do.

 

[ac-dave]

Union local 340 IBEW

 

[buckfever]

Got a question. Are the unions in canada different in structure then here in the states? Just wondering cause they sound the same.

 

[RollOver Pete]

Guess I've voted and posted in this thread before....so...
Do I work union? Yep....IUOE Local 12.
Have or will I cross a picket line?.....Never ever cross any union picket line.
Do I scab?.... If that means that I work non union then I guess Yep.
Have I ever received unemployment benefits? No.....because I always have work.
Do I give a $hit what y'all think? Nope. And here's why.

Both union and non union members also happen to be some of the biggest hypocritics ever made.
The union-non union argument/rivalry has been going on since the invention of the wheel loader.
I won't ever knock anyone for trying to keep his family fed.
I will ask them why they dont get off of their rear and take charge of their own destiny.
Only a fool relies on someone else for their survival. That includes waiting to get cleared out from the hall or
waiting for someone else to find you a job.
As a man or head of household you do what you have to do and work. You provide and you earn.
As a human, you do what can to help others both union and non union out.
Union or non union, in these times it really doesn't matter.
Taking care of # 1.....thats all that matters.

 

[BlazinSS934]

I am union and self employed

I was in United Service Worker Local 355 for HVAC I kept my book open when I left there to go to my current job.

Currently in Local 501 of the Utility Workers Union of America I work for my local water district. We cover 40,000 households in a 8 mile area. Gotta love suburban long island!!

Now I run into a grey area I usually get side work doing boilers or central air because all the major oil outfits use union labor and charge $$$$ for a boiler install I'm talking like 7-8000 for a oil fired water boiler. I can come in and charge 5-5500 and still make a profit I split the profit with my partner he still works in the business so I guess he's scabbing a lil bit

I tried to get in to IUOE but it's impossible in the NYC area so now I am content with what I do I have a good retirement and benefits package. The work environment is outstanding I work with a great group of guys. It sucks because with 5-7 years everyone will be packing it in that's a ton of experience walking out the door.