Truck heating up

[DMiller]

Straight edged my block, inspected per Cat specs on distortion on surface as to projection specs and prep. All looked good on this unit.

 

[Truck Shop]

Some truck shops here will cut all 6 holes even when none are worn just because of that.

Very true-I've cut all six on many blocks for same reason. The reason for the different
thickness of the block shim is if when done cutting and a little high or low the block
shim/gasket will make up the difference.

 

[Mobiltech]

Are you talking about different thickness of spacer plate shim or gasket?
Is there a part number chart available for all thicknesses of gasket.
I must admit that I have come to rely on my measurements of the block while Im cutting and using a dial indicator to measure the depth of cut and height of installed shim. If I have new liners and cat gaskets I know it will fall into the high side of spec.

 

[DMiller]

In the literature I have found Liner shim p/n 2W3815 .0632 SS nothing I have shows a varied thickness Spacer plate gasket but Cat is not always giving as to available options for a shim sized gasket.
Spacer plate is supposed to be .3380, +/- .0013.

 

[Truck Shop]

Are you talking about different thickness of spacer plate shim

Yes spacer plate shim-Cat made them in a few varied thicknesses to compensate for
process of cutting block plus the variable in thickness of spacer plate. Every time I
removed a head and spacer plate I always made sure to check thickness of spacer
plate shim. I wouldn't say it's common to find one that's not the standard size that
comes in gasket set, I think IIRC I've only found two in I don't know many that I have
checked through the years. I always check the new supplied in set, I know of one
instance where it wasn't and coolant started flowing freely. Two block shims were
stuck together in the Cat gasket set and installed as such on just a cylinder head change.
It raised the plate an extra .009. The shim got caught in the stamping die and was
pressed together with the next blank.

 

[Truck Shop]

In the literature I have found Liner shim p/n 2W3815 .0632 SS nothing I have shows a varied

There is such.

 

[Mobiltech]

The liner shim I cut for is a 9y3368 which measures 0.032 inch. I cut to just over 0.030 inch to allow about .002 extra protrusion. Its actually a better fix than having the block resurfaced unless you have erosion at the grommets to deal with.
I have seen a few people on YouTube claim its a band aid fix but they have obviously never cut a block. They still claim to be experts.
I have seen some people machining a ring into the cylinder head where the fire ring makes contact in an effort to get more crush.

 

[Truck Shop]

The liner shim I cut for is a 9y3368 which measures 0.032 inch. I cut to just over 0.030 inch to allow about .002 extra protrusion.

Same here-The last six I cut some years back I used a Monaco tool, IMO seems smoother than the
Kent Moore.

 

[suladas]

All this technical talk is way over my head But I figured it means there is no easy way to get it back running decent and it's full rebuild or nothing.

I told him I wasn't going ahead due to concerns about costs spiraling out of control and concerns about quality of parts/warranty. I was expecting some push back like no the parts are good, he would warranty them or something. But nope just asking if i'm scrapping the truck and that the parts aren't returnable Then his bright idea was put truck back together and send through auction, he gets full amount of his bill and if any left over I get it. Yea not going to happen.

 

[suladas]

I dont know you or your mechanic and i cant say what is wright or wrong here but i have been the mechanic on jobs like this before . This is one of the reason mechanic work is not fun . One of you guys cant under stand what the other is saying . I got into a job like this one i talked to the customer at least 3 times what it would cost and take to fix his engine. I had alot of machine work done then it hit him what it was going to cost . We should have sat down and written out on paper what it would cost and signed it. Then another time the customer wanted it fixed i jumped the gun and had things under way when he got cold feet. Not saying who is wright or wrong but its not easy on any one.

While I don't understand the in depth details of what a engine rebuild requires, I have a basic understanding of them and know enough that he messed up, badly. I have also been running this by a buddy of mine who is a foreman at the Freightliner dealership here, and he was also blown away by how he ran away with the repairs without any sort of go ahead. They will not even start repairs without a signed work order, or confirmation in writing and either an estimate provided or a set amount to go up to. I've taken trucks/trailers to plenty of other shops over the years and every time I come in and they give me an estimate to go over and confirm a ballpark price before proceeding with anything. Last year for my truck inspection he took truck and I heard nothing until it was done and here's your bill. My only fault was trusting him not to pull that same crap again.

He never told me a single price before removing head, or going ahead with machining head and buying spacer plate and gasket. Absolutely zero idea of any price.

Here is how it went down. Went I went to run truck for first time after repair for oil cooler it started smoking so I came back and asked him what it could be, he said right away almost guaranteed it's head gasket and truck is probably not worth fixing but there is a very small chance it's the compressor. Said he would look at it next week and let me know.

It took him a month to look at it between the holidays and what not so I had no idea when he started or how far he went. The next time I heard from him was running into him outside our shops (our spaces are right next door) and word for word he told me "dropped head off yesterday afternoon hoping to hear on it today". I replied that I was shocked he removed the head. He said "it's the only way to know it's the head gasket". I made it clear I wasn't happy but knew it was too late so might as well wait and see what they say.

Next time I hear from him a few days later he asks me to come in to discuss truck. He tells me "head wasn't bad, but liners are low". He already had the head back and bought spacer plate and gaskets. This was the first price talk, he told me $20-25k to do "everything" for engine and cvip, no written quote or details, and he admitted he hadn't gone through the truck for all repairs, only that he didn't think it needed anything "major" (missed the frame though I pointed it out). Being put on the spot and thinking he's really deep into it and past the point of return, but if it's going to be proper I said ok. That night I think better of it I need a quote in writing to know what he's doing, etc. I go in next day and say stop, I need a quote and details, etc and we need to know what truck needs for a cvip.

I was concerned he might keep going so I text him confirming stopping engine work and just figure out what truck needs for cvip. That afternoon I come in to the rear suspension tore apart and get told "it was the only way to see if the frame could be fixed". I wasn't happy and told him again to stop work I needed a quote. Thursday I go back in because I hadn't heard anything and they kept working on the frame repair and it was nearly done. He wasn't there and I texted him that I wasn't happy and what's going on you're so deep into repairs and no idea if truck is worth fixing yet, I need a quote.

Then after that he finally got the $25k quote and here we are.

I'm all ears to hear if anyone thinks i'm in the wrong here, by all means don't hold back. I absolutely did give him permission for half a day to continue tearing down AFTER the head was back, but that was removing things like the hood, bumper, etc to prep for removing engine, it's a very very small part.

 

[DMiller]

Matters not what I think now, if you halt work and parts non refundable you end up paying him and losing truck at scrap rate. That is the bottom line. Some repairs made and pieces bought so will cost you anyway.

 

[suladas]

Matters not what I think now, if you halt work and parts non refundable you end up paying him and losing truck at scrap rate. That is the bottom line. Some repairs made and pieces bought so will cost you anyway.

I am trying to get other perspectives if I screwed up and be reasonable to try and resolve this amicably, and I have no problem paying a reasonable amount but not getting nothing out of the truck that was probably worth $10k prior to him starting.

From a legal standpoint he doesn't have a leg to stand on. He has no signed work order, estimate, or any confirmation to proceed. If he went down that route he would likely end up getting $0.

 

[92U 3406]

You brought him a (not well) running truck. Now its a completely non-running truck in pieces with zero approval to have gone that far and no written estimate.

Myself I'd be livid right now TBH. There's no way he should have went that far into it without some sort of written agreement.

 

[Truck Shop]

Don't know what to say, as I sit here shaking my head.

 

[suladas]

You brought him a (not well) running truck. Now its a completely non-running truck in pieces with zero approval to have gone that far and no written estimate.

myself I'd be livid right now TBH. There's no way he should have went that far into it without some sort of written agreement.

100%. I don't see how any shop would ever pull a head on a truck without providing a written quote best and worst case scenario or where a customer said just fix whatever it needs. I'm being nicer about it because it would be nice to remain civil with him seeing as we share yard space and our shops are in the same building.

It also screws me from potentially fixing it elsewhere as it should have been maybe $1000 to access engine and cvip repairs and make this call before anything was tore into.

I told him i'm ok with putting it back together as long as it will run at least as good as before so he can get it out of the shop. But that i'm not ok with the bill and how he went ahead with all these things.

 

[Truck Shop]

First would have been to trouble shoot to narrow down the issue. Then three possible quotes with
prices of good, better and best options before disassembly, that's how I always handled it, that way
the customer knew what he was up against.

 

[Old Doug]

When i go through a tuff spot today i can think about this and think my problems are not so bad. I cant take a side on this but its one of those life lessons and the more you learn the bigger the bill. Some one is going to school on this and it will not be cheap.

 

[Mobiltech]

On a truck like that where it is a toss up whether or not it’s worth fixing he should have given you the rough breakdown before doing the head or ordering parts. As far as I’m concerned he should be stuck with the parts he purchased.
I don’t think I would let him slap the engine together because he won’t give a hoot about how it goes together.

 

[92U 3406]

On a truck like that where it is a toss up whether or not it’s worth fixing he should have given you the rough breakdown before doing the head or ordering parts. As far as I’m concerned he should be stuck with the parts he purchased.
I don’t think I would let him slap the engine together because he won’t give a hoot about how it goes together.

100%

He'll be pissed and it'll get slapped together as fast as possible just to get it out of his hair. If OP wants to keep the truck it'd be best to close up the block best as possible and drag it out of there on the hook.

 

[cfherrman]

Yeah agreed, act in good faith to have him put it together then start haggling.

It just seems like your like check it out and he just went full nuclear on it.

If lawyers get involved everyone loses.