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Truck heating up

Truck Shop

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Rule #1 Never do business with another business sharing the same property.
Rule #2 Only do business with a legitimate shop that's neat, clean and has a real office.
Rule #3 If burned once never go back for seconds.
The shop in this thread more than likely has a bad track record a mile long, probably has had people carrying
a bat looking all over town for him. I'm sure this is his standard practice and always wants to be paid in cash.
 

suladas

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On a truck like that where it is a toss up whether or not it’s worth fixing he should have given you the rough breakdown before doing the head or ordering parts. As far as I’m concerned he should be stuck with the parts he purchased.
I don’t think I would let him slap the engine together because he won’t give a hoot about how it goes together.

Because his first solution was send it to the auction and he gets paid from that proceeds I believe he will be of the opinion it's in his best interests to do it properly and my caveat on agreeing to that solution was that it runs at least as good as it did before. Regardless if it runs or not after, I think it's best to have it back in one piece. If I tried to take truck as-is i'm guessing many parts would be thrown together and not labeled maybe damaged, missing, etc. And I doubt any shop would touch it, whereas if it's back in one piece and ideally running I can easily take it elsewhere.
 

suladas

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However he didn't respond to me since, so who knows what he's thinking or his plan.

My plan is to be amicable towards a resolution as long as he is, and as much as I don't think i'm in the wrong at all will suck up spending a few extra grand to try and resolve it. If he mentions mechanic lien or court, then I won't bother trying to resolve with him and will let it ride out that way.
 

cfherrman

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Sounds good, if he talks about lawyers or something (after truck is together) might pull the defense of the he can only talk to your lawyer now, the relationship will be already ruined at that point anyway.
 

suladas

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Well he texted me yesterday asking me to come in and discuss and it didn't go anywhere. He's stuck in the opinion he did absolutely nothing wrong and isn't budging on the bill even $1 and I can pay the $13k bill now or $15k put back together and that's it.

Just went around in circles. He couldn't understand my viewpoint of saying inspect the truck and give a ballpark of costs and not tear it apart for the cvip. Word for word this is my text to him AFTER he was suppose to already be stopped on the engine and getting a quote. "Can we hold off on going further with engine until we know the extent of other repairs truck will need for cvip? Just concerned if it's going to exceed like $30k". Would anyone assume that's a go ahead to tear the rear suspension apart and bill for $2500?

I did ask him about tests, he said testing for exhaust gas in the coolant almost never works and the only way to know it's the head is pulling it. He didn't confirm either way when I asked but I don't think he ever checked out the compressor. I also asked about the thinner spacer plate if all cylinders were within .002, he said he's tried it and the head gasket failed again right away, funny enough it was with the same parts he bought for my truck, I asked if maybe it was the parts and he said "I don't know" :rolleyes: Before he had never used these parts, now he has many times and they are good.

I also asked about the warranty and he said it's normal that he only covers the parts warranty if the supplier does.

I tried to think of solutions, like selling the head and not putting back together and all he said was "probably you could try calling the machine shop" and that the parts aren't returnable.

Also pitched him on him rebuilding it and selling truck after, wouldn't consider anything like that. I wonder why he doesn't want to take any risk on the rebuild?

I think i've bent over backwards to try and come to a reasonable solution, it's not even worth pitching him a $3-4k number. He wants an answer by the end of the day and i'm just going to say I don't have one but the 13k as-is or the 15k back together aren't it.
 

Mobiltech

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Did I read that right that the safety inspection is 691 bucks?
I would let him stew for a while. The truck is worth very little to you so are you wanting to pay 13 grand for a 10 grand truck?
He is going to want it out of his space at some point . He is in the wrong and trying to bully you into paying.
Give him a month or 2 to think about it.
 

suladas

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Did I read that right that the safety inspection is 691 bucks?
I would let him stew for a while. The truck is worth very little to you so are you wanting to pay 13 grand for a 10 grand truck?
He is going to want it out of his space at some point . He is in the wrong and trying to bully you into paying.
Give him a month or 2 to think about it.

Yes that includes pulling all the wheels though or at least it should, last years cvip without pulling wheels was $325. Yea I totally agree. I'm not paying a dime unless we have an agreement in place and the max would be $3k if I get it back together running as good as it did before it went in. At least for the time being i've decided i'm going to buy the international so I don't care if this one sits.
 

Truck Shop

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did ask him about tests, he said testing for exhaust gas in the coolant almost never works and the only way to know it's the head is pulling it. He didn't confirm either way when I asked but I don't think he ever checked out the compressor. I also asked about the thinner spacer plate if all cylinders were within .002, he said he's tried it and the head gasket failed again right away, funny enough it was with the same parts he bought for my truck, I asked if maybe it was the parts and he said "I don't know" :rolleyes: Before he had never used these parts, now he has many times and they are good.

That guy doesn't know his a$$ from a hole in the ground.
 

cfherrman

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Things might not work out for this guy because he doesn't do them correctly. I'm looking for a particular you tube video on combustion glasses in coolant, but can't find it.

I'm sorry I don't know what I would do at this point if I were you.
 

crane operator

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it started smoking so I came back and asked him what it could be, he said right away almost guaranteed it's head gasket and truck is probably not worth fixing

going to be proper I said ok.

I can pay the $13k bill now or $15k put back together

You own a truck that blew a head gasket. There's no "can you get me 500 miles" fix to that situation. Its going to take some money.

You took it to the guy next door, and he flat out told you "its probably not worth fixing". I'm not entirely sure what all happened right after that- maybe you thought he'd put his x-ray vision glasses on and his fortune teller hat and come up with a $3-4,000 miracle cheapy repair, or give you a total itemized list of everything he's going to find once he gets inside. Either way- you didn't drag it home right then- you left it at his yard. That to me means "I want it fixed".

You're at 13k for a pile of parts, and at 15k put back together? or $25k put back together? I'm not sure and I really don't care. At the high figure that's only $18,000 US for a engine head repair and removal/ reinstallation of rear suspension and frame rail repair. Sounds a little high, but I think the last head/ and gasket replacement I had done at shop was close to $10k and that was before "covid inflation" prices. Maybe a "this is a POS truck" cost for the "I hope he's not my customer anymore" price rate.

You took him the truck, he said "its probably not worth fixing" but you knew better- and you gave a verbal go ahead. He's a mechanic, not a auction house or a buyer and fix it and resell it house. Its your truck that you wanted fixed. If you didn't want it fixed, don't take it to the mechanic. I don't expect a repair shop to make business decisions for me.

Paper work orders only matter to paper pushers and lawyers. If I say "go ahead" then I mean "go ahead" and I'm paying my end, because I said I would, not because of some papers.

And as far as "warranty"- nobody is warrantying a 35 year old band aid engine repair- there's a whole pile of other bad things that can happen to a engine that age- because he's not replacing everything- just fixing what's wrong. Full warranty doesn't happen on a band aid repair- if the head gasket price is giving you the vapors, a full crank out/ injection pump/ turbo/ liners/ mains/ pistons/ head price would send you around the bend.

If you don't like your neighbor mechanic, well then don't take him your truck anymore, find another shop. The rest of this is 10 pages of you crying about the cost to fix your old truck. You don't work for free, I don't know what makes you think your neighbor mechanic should.

You want to have a dump truck- fine- you either pay for it in new purchase price, or in repair prices- none of my equipment runs for free. Anyone running a 30 year old truck better be able to fix it themselves, or be ready to pay for a $15,000 repair at any time. If you can't do either of those, maybe you shouldn't own a dump truck.
 

suladas

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You own a truck that blew a head gasket. There's no "can you get me 500 miles" fix to that situation. Its going to take some money.

You took it to the guy next door, and he flat out told you "its probably not worth fixing". I'm not entirely sure what all happened right after that- maybe you thought he'd put his x-ray vision glasses on and his fortune teller hat and come up with a $3-4,000 miracle cheapy repair, or give you a total itemized list of everything he's going to find once he gets inside. Either way- you didn't drag it home right then- you left it at his yard. That to me means "I want it fixed".

You're at 13k for a pile of parts, and at 15k put back together? or $25k put back together? I'm not sure and I really don't care. At the high figure that's only $18,000 US for a engine head repair and removal/ reinstallation of rear suspension and frame rail repair. Sounds a little high, but I think the last head/ and gasket replacement I had done at shop was close to $10k and that was before "covid inflation" prices. Maybe a "this is a POS truck" cost for the "I hope he's not my customer anymore" price rate.

You took him the truck, he said "its probably not worth fixing" but you knew better- and you gave a verbal go ahead. He's a mechanic, not a auction house or a buyer and fix it and resell it house. Its your truck that you wanted fixed. If you didn't want it fixed, don't take it to the mechanic. I don't expect a repair shop to make business decisions for me.

Paper work orders only matter to paper pushers and lawyers. If I say "go ahead" then I mean "go ahead" and I'm paying my end, because I said I would, not because of some papers.

And as far as "warranty"- nobody is warrantying a 35 year old band aid engine repair- there's a whole pile of other bad things that can happen to a engine that age- because he's not replacing everything- just fixing what's wrong. Full warranty doesn't happen on a band aid repair- if the head gasket price is giving you the vapors, a full crank out/ injection pump/ turbo/ liners/ mains/ pistons/ head price would send you around the bend.

If you don't like your neighbor mechanic, well then don't take him your truck anymore, find another shop. The rest of this is 10 pages of you crying about the cost to fix your old truck. You don't work for free, I don't know what makes you think your neighbor mechanic should.

You want to have a dump truck- fine- you either pay for it in new purchase price, or in repair prices- none of my equipment runs for free. Anyone running a 30 year old truck better be able to fix it themselves, or be ready to pay for a $15,000 repair at any time. If you can't do either of those, maybe you shouldn't own a dump truck.

Here's the thing, he was suppose to eliminate the compressor, and if it wasn't it at that point I was going to ask him to do an inspection on the truck and a breakdown of best/worst case scenario for head gasket or full rebuild, and i'd have no problem paying him to do the quote, I don't expect anyone to work for free. I was never going to give him go ahead to pull a head without any idea of the cost and if it made sense, no reputable shop would. The issue was he pulled the head, then had it machined, and did the frame repair all on his own without receiving any go ahead. Also for note, he did last years inspection and missed the frame crack. $13k is taking the truck tore apart in pieces, $15k is putting it back together and doing head gasket, $25k is rebuild, but the quote is so vague there is no way it's not at least $30k. The problem is he did make business decisions for me by going so deep into it without approval.

This is far from my first time taking a truck to be fixed and guess what every single time unless it's under like $1k they call me before proceeding with any work. I'm not sticking him because I didn't sign a work order, i'm doing it because he ran up a $15k bill for something that I would have pulled the plug on with maybe a $1k bill tops.

The warranty is not to cover old parts. I wanted him to warranty the parts he was supplying and installing. I'm not spending $30k on a rebuild and if the second it leaves the shop the head gasket is leaking he says it's shitty parts and the parts supplier says shitty labour and i'm stuck in the middle with a broken truck, not going to happen. When I do work and supply material/parts if they fail I fix it and deal with the supplier I don't tell the customer to go to my supplier.
 
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Welder Dave

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Haven't been following for a bit so went back and read several pages. Here's my take on it. The shop with the truck is for sure very unprofessional among other things. If at one point he said he'd fix everything for $25K, hold him to that and unless you are supplying the parts he warrantees his labour and holds the parts supplier to warranty the parts. You could leave the truck with him and let him stew. If he tried to put a mechanics lean on it or sue you, he may not get paid a cent. You could abandon the truck. Without a signed work order he'd have a real problem and would basically have a chunk of scrap iron. Would he rather take a cut to get paid $25K or have a bucket of bolts? You could also countersue him. There's probably things like unfair/unethical work practices on your side. A good lawyer could tell you. The guy is totally taking advantage of you! It's not good he's in the same yard as you. The other question is would you rather forfit a truck worth less than $10K (as it sits)or pay $25K or more to have it fixed? There is still the option to look for a used engine too. If engine parts were purchased but not used may be returnable. All depends on the supplier, especially if the buyer/shop deals with them on a regular basis. It's not inconceivable that an engine was found to be not worth fixing after devling deeper into it or customer backed out after ordering parts. This is where a shop that deals with the supplier can give a good sob story on why they need to return the parts. Worst case the supplier says no. It doesn't cost anything to try. A good reputable shop would never have handled it this way. The 1st thing any good shop would be concerned about is how they are going to get paid on a big dollar job and be upfront with costs before proceeding too deep.
I think I got hosed on getting 2 bucket cylinders rebuilt but it was less than $2K not $20K+.
 
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Truck Shop

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Unused parts still sealed in boxes normally can be returned-with a restocking charge.
Technically--there is no such thing as a mechanics lien. A shop can take someone a customer to court
over a dispute, but a shop cannot keep the owner/owners of vehicle/vehicles from their lively hood/
transportation/or use in a business.

Have sat in court to give testimony over such matters/been down that road before watching it play out.
 

crane operator

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15k canadian is only 11,000 us. You're not going to purchase any other running driving dump truck for that amount. With a blown head gasket and a cracked frame rail, your truck would have been difficult to sell.

So for $11,000 US you're going to have a fixed head gasket and the frame rail repaired. Doesn't sound out of line to me.

Old used up dump trucks that are running and driving start at $30,000 US by me. ANything decent is now 40-50,000.

Even if you don't keep the truck, it had to be fixed. So pay to get it fixed, and if you want something different or are bent around the axle because he won't warranty a 30 year old truck, sell the fixed truck and buy something else.

I don't see the complications or the reasons to be upset. Either you can't afford the repair, or can't understand that trucks are going to break and need repaired, or you just don't like the way the mechanic does business.

I don't think the repair cost is out of line, and if you just don't like the way your neighbor mechanic does business, you better drag your stuff to the freightliner buddy. And then you'll have written itemized work orders, and a bill that is twice as high.

Look at it this way. Customer comes to you with a 10,000 project. You say I'm not sure its worth that amount of money to sculp your ditch bank and pull those trees, they say go ahead. 1/2 way through the project, they now want engineered drawings, DNR permits, copies of your insurance certificates blah blah blah. And then they get pissed because its costing too much (which you told them it would from the start) and now want you to stop. And only want to pay you $2,000 for your mobilization. And your at $8,000 of fuel and labor that you could have been billing to someone else, if you weren't dealing with this bad customer. And they think you can just pound sand. and go to court, and hire lawyers if you want any more money than that. They weren't sure they wanted this ditch cleaned out anyways.

You're the bad customer here.
 

terex herder

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In my understanding here in the US, typically, a mechanics lien is a judgement against a piece of equipment or vehicle. There is no enforcement mechanism while the owner has possession against the equipment. Its just a record at the court house, and the lien passes to the new owner if said buyer doesn't do due diligence and check for the lien.
 

56wrench

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Sometimes, the stuff in the ‘inoperable’ lineup at a Ritchie sale brings stupid money because there is always somebody who thinks they can make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear especially nowadays. B model mechanical Cats have value. Maybe thats an option to sell it. Just sayin
 

cfherrman

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15k canadian is only 11,000 us. You're not going to purchase any other running driving dump truck for that amount. With a blown head gasket and a cracked frame rail, your truck would have been difficult to sell.

So for $11,000 US you're going to have a fixed head gasket and the frame rail repaired. Doesn't sound out of line to me.

Old used up dump trucks that are running and driving start at $30,000 US by me. ANything decent is now 40-50,000.

Even if you don't keep the truck, it had to be fixed. So pay to get it fixed, and if you want something different or are bent around the axle because he won't warranty a 30 year old truck, sell the fixed truck and buy something else.

I don't see the complications or the reasons to be upset. Either you can't afford the repair, or can't understand that trucks are going to break and need repaired, or you just don't like the way the mechanic does business.

I don't think the repair cost is out of line, and if you just don't like the way your neighbor mechanic does business, you better drag your stuff to the freightliner buddy. And then you'll have written itemized work orders, and a bill that is twice as high.

Look at it this way. Customer comes to you with a 10,000 project. You say I'm not sure its worth that amount of money to sculp your ditch bank and pull those trees, they say go ahead. 1/2 way through the project, they now want engineered drawings, DNR permits, copies of your insurance certificates blah blah blah. And then they get pissed because its costing too much (which you told them it would from the start) and now want you to stop. And only want to pay you $2,000 for your mobilization. And your at $8,000 of fuel and labor that you could have been billing to someone else, if you weren't dealing with this bad customer. And they think you can just pound sand. and go to court, and hire lawyers if you want any more money than that. They weren't sure they wanted this ditch cleaned out anyways.

You're the bad customer here.

I think your missing the point, it's not about the money, it's about dropping a truck off saying check it out and coming back and the head is off at the machine shop getting machined. Then the next day you come back and the rear end it off with the frame welded. What do you do in this situation? Trust is already lost with the mechanic so do you trust him further to repair the truck or do you try something else.

With the information provided I don't think we can blame the op for being hesitant. I'm really curious what you would have done in his stead when you show up and the head gone being machined.
 

Shimmy1

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What a $$$$$hit show. This thread is a perfect example on why I will not run Caterpillar truck engines.

Have been down a head gasket road several times, and know of numerous other guys with the same experience. Spacer plate?? WTF is that? Don't need to worry about no stinking spacer plate on an N14 or 60 Series. Head gasket out? Yank the head(s), clean it up, new gasket, out the door. We have an N14 with 1,096,000 miles on it that needed a head gasket at 990k. Mechanic, who was a hell of a good mechanic but a little too particular pulled all three heads, and then said he wouldn't put them back on because there was some putting on the deck. I told him in no uncertain terms to polish it up best he could, put it together, and we would live with the consequences.

Over 100,000 miles later and it's still running. Gets it's guts pulled out for 4 months of the year running 100-105k out of the field.

So, like I said, Spacer Plate? What's that? If that Cat were mine I'd have prob told the mechanic to slap a new gasket in and shove it out the door. But that's just me.
 
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