Time to solve this. Moving 4k yds of dirt 1000ft.

[fastline]

I think we chatted on this some time back. My hand is sort of being forced now due to people loving me so much, they want to put homes by me, in the middle of BFE! Seeing red is an understatement.

I have always planned to cut a pond on my own place. Built plenty for others but nearing time to do my own. All I really care about is getting that dirt! Because I want privacy berms built everywhere. The estimated amount of dirt I need is 4K yds. I will be doing much work with my 322 hoe and will be getting my D7 back online. However, The hangup I have always had is moving that dirt and my brain hovers around 'efficiency'. I don't like moving it twice. However, I might have to eat it here, just not sure.

Regarding scrapers, I have considered buying an 8 wheel pull tractor and try to find a pan, but pans are NOT cheap! IMO, over priced as used in my area. I have watched for elevating scrapers here for many yrs. Nearly bought a 633 which would have be awesome, but didn't work out. I think where my frustration is, is paying for trucking support here knowing I am just giving money away rather than 'investing' into equipment I could really use. But I am not sure if tractor/pan config could really drop down in the ground 10ft and still power out of the hole? I mean, if I resort to loading a pan with the hoe or having to push it with the dozer, am I running efficient?

I do plan to strip back and properly place topsoils. I want vegetation on all this stuff, so that will take extra time. But I started working numbers towards a pair of tandem dump trucks, and though I have not hired them by the hour in a LONG time, if I can get a decent rate, maybe it is for the best? My thought was that I could pretty much dig my pond as needed, mostly by myself, and use the dozer to move material out of my way. Once that operation is mostly done, I could try to configure a more optimal loading arrangement of the material into trucks. Like climbing the pile and setting myself up for efficient loading so my focus is solely on those trucks.

I might ask you guys about tandems running offroad, real capacity, traction, etc? This dirt is hard unless wet. We have run lowboys at 100K on it without issue, but not 100 cycles! I think some of our locals can run 17T on their trucks but running offroad, is that it? Do you let them tell you? If I load this way, the material is already broke free so it should load out very fast. My bucket is about 2.2yd and if I am pushing, I could get up to 3 buckets/min but my estimates are based on 5yd/min loading.

I guess as much as I really want and need a scraper, I also need to make a plan forward on this that makes sense. These berms will be sharp and aggressive with 2:1 slopes so really just dropping piles from a truck might be more ideal? My thought was I could call them in for a day to move the sub (fill) material and then allow me to work it with my equipment for a time, then return later to move some top soil for me to spread over the berms.

This project has been 'grading' on me for over a decade. Never enough time or money to do it but I simply cannot even plant a single tree until this gets done. I know it's a matter of time before more housing BS starts. I HATE neighbors and I am 30mi from the center of the mess. Figures they need to build RIGHT next to me! My luck continues.

 

[landtennessee]

I understand your frustration with the situation. Balancing efficiency and budget for your pond project is challenging. Considering a mix of trucking and your own equipment is a practical approach. Consult local experts for advice on truck capacities and off-road performance. Your dedication to the project is evident; keep researching and seeking help when needed. Best of luck with your pond project!

 

[MG84]

Have you considered pulling a scraper with the D7? That would be my vote. Not as fast as a self propelled scraper or wheel tractor but can also get in and out of tough spots and load itself in most any conditions.

 

[fastline]

Have you considered pulling a scraper with the D7? That would be my vote. Not as fast as a self propelled scraper or wheel tractor but can also get in and out of tough spots and load itself in most any conditions.

Mostly talked myself out of that, and other pros did too as it would be very slow and wear out the dozer UC. Just seems like rubber is needed. I had also looked at a Challenger tracked tractor but missed it. Priced pretty right but who knows what issues it had. Farmers never sell for no reason.

I am also seeing more of the ADT trucks mated to pans. All the vids I see though, they certainly can't self load. Not sure what the advantage is other than 6 wheels moving so probably can move the material better without getting stuck.

I was trying to run numbers for truck cycle times. I really don't want them backing up. Trying to study all that.

 

[MG84]

If a scraper of some flavor isn’t in the cards I next best thing would be an ADT. Tandem road trucks would be my last choice but may be your only option.

 

[fastline]

Main thing on ADTs is around here, most just don't run them. I hardly ever see them on jobs unless really big ones. And for such a small relative job I have here, I don't know how that would pencil out.

I will admit though, a pan on that dozer could really improve my life on other pond jobs because it could do digging that most just could not, plus I could use it to load dirt into with the hoe and move it. Sort of a swiss army knife on the job.

But I have studied my hydraulics and will take a massive effort just to add extra ports. Amazing CAT didn't think ahead to even offer me a pipe plug of pressure oil.

Basically the price of a pan is just stupid money around here! Even the old ones. $30K! NO!

 

[terex herder]

A scraper is your best bet for a 1 man show. Dig, haul, spread, and pack all in 1 machine. I sold a deere 860a last year for $5,000 that would have been just what you needed. I know of some TS14 scrapers that were sold for scrap, still operating. As far as a tractor and pan pulling out of a hole 10' deep, no problem. I think it would pull out of a hole that a elevator or pan scraper would find difficult.

 

[Georgia Iron]

Maybe you should rent an off road dump truck for a month or two. I personally would not wear out my dozer pulling dirt.

 

[fastline]

Maybe you should rent an off road dump truck for a month or two. I personally would not wear out my dozer pulling dirt.

Yeah, with practically a new UC under it. But trying to keep ideas open here. Surprised there is not much support or hiring in on-road trucks. I just saw a vid of D8s with pans and they 'still' needed a push cat.

 

[OzDozer]

1000 ft is at the distance limit for tracked equipment, the ideal distance for a dozer and pan is 300' to 1000'. Tracked equipment is slow, rubber-tyred is the way to go.
Find a real big loader cheap, one with teeth on the bucket, they'll shift a lot of dirt over that distance.
Carrying the dirt is the secret behind dirt moving efficiency over a distance. Even a big old dump truck would be an option.

 

[KSSS]

An excavator and something like this could be an option.
http://www.miskin.com/DumpWagon.htm

 

[GODSDOZER]

My advice, use your excavator and get a ADT rental. If you look around, you can find some good deals on ADT's, If you are renting from a dealer, not so much.

 

[fastline]

Curious why people are recommending the ADT? Is it due to capacity? Or confidence on the terrain? My issue with a single truck is wasted time. I am not yet sure what cycle times would look like but ideally I would like to send one off about the time another returns to keep moving.

The other question is on bulking dirt, then climbing a pile to load trucks or attempt to dig the pond and load directly? Lifting high into a truck from ground level will take time but probably still faster than moving dirt twice. ??

 

[GODSDOZER]

I can tell by your response you are a small dirt contractor, as I am. rent a ADT.....................

 

[Welder Dave]

If you're doing everything by yourself nothing is going to be very efficient unless you had a scraper. Short of that you're going to have to jump in and out of different machines. The bigger of hauler you can get the better. If you could get drivers and had 2 trucks wouldn't be too bad. Loading directly into a truck(s) or ADT is the most efficient.

 

[skyking1]

Curious why people are recommending the ADT? Is it due to capacity? Or confidence on the terrain? My issue with a single truck is wasted time. I am not yet sure what cycle times would look like but ideally I would like to send one off about the time another returns to keep moving.

The other question is on bulking dirt, then climbing a pile to load trucks or attempt to dig the pond and load directly? Lifting high into a truck from ground level will take time but probably still faster than moving dirt twice. ??

1) Unless the bottom is pure slop, the ADT drives on the floor level, It can elevate that dirt a lot faster than your excavator. Cut a slot and keep the truck in it as you march across the pond.
2) you are getting the ADT answer because you have a decent excavator to start with. Nothing else you have is really suited. Putting street trucks on the haul requires a lot more attention to the haul paths. The ADT dumps a taller pile for berm building, if you stack them tight it is 6' high without any dressing.
3) a 30 ton ADT is 20 yards a whack. That's only 200 trips. Put somebody in the ADT, and think about how you will shape it while you wait, or, climb up and down and load yourself.

 

[fastline]

Fair enough, I will have to see if getting one here is even feasible. Not many around. Pretty certain the dealers have them and would rent, but I probably won't want to pay that.. Would be super to find a private guy that owns one and wants to work.

I will think more on driving an ADT down in the hole. Didn't really consider that. When I cut a pond this size, I typically work only from the top, cut the center, and work my way out, so it could work to simply drive that ADT down near my dig and I can probably fill him up pronto.

 

[skyking1]

that is the only way to move dirt efficiently.
Cut a slope and enough floor as you back the truck to you, then make it a drive through, unless you have a sharp truck backer. March across taking out what you were sitting on, then turn around and go the other way. 90 swing and minimal boom lifting.

 

[Entropy1]

I also have a permit to build a house in WA State. I gave up when construction costs tripled. But I digress.

My house design required me to relocate approximately 400 yards of earth (from digging the daylight basement) to the North-West part of my property. My using the 128 excavator was a no-go. Trying to move it with the little dozer was a no-go also. My solution was to buy an old 5 yard dump truck (picture attached). The plan was for me to dig & load the dump truck while the wife made loops in the truck to the upper lot & dump. Then every 40 or so yards I'd go up there with the little dozer and smooth things out. A pretty good plan (labor vs cost balance).

IMHO an old dump truck will typically hold its resale value pretty well. You could consider it a low-cost rental solution. Even though I gave up on building, I decided to keep my dump truck - it's much too useful. I have it registered at 26,000 GVRW (no CDL required), and the insurance is quite reasonable. At that GVRW I can only haul 4 yards of crushed basalt rock without exceeding the registered GVRW - whereas the truck is capable of hauling about 5.5 yards. As far as the DOT number - I don't have one. When asked, I'm not for hire. . . .

Moving 4000 yards however - I'd probably get a 10 yard dump. The next big question is how quickly can you load it?

Note: in Kitasp County you need a permit to move/relocate more than 150 yards of Earth. The permit itself isn't cheap, and the hoops to obtain one are quite painful - environmental impact studies, stormwater management studies, wetland surveys, and about 10 months processing time (typical) - not to mention the county reserves the right to tell you no. . . . If you get caught moving more than 150 yards without a permit, in addition to a significant monetary fine (I believe it's 20 grand) you'll also be hit with a stop-work order (that's transferable if you sell the property) for 10 years. I'm not sure about the rules in your part of Washington State, but it might be a good idea to ask some questions before you start digging. . . . because it's still Washington State. . . .

Best of luck

 

[skyking1]

what made you think he is in Washington state? the guy is midwest and none of your information is relevant.