Time to solve this. Moving 4k yds of dirt 1000ft.

[Entropy1]

My apologies. I thought was your thread skyking1. The little icon shows the last person who responded to the thread - not the thread originator.

It did seem odd to me that you'd need to move 4000 yards to build your house.

 

[fastline]

what made you think he is in Washington state? the guy is midwest and none of your information is relevant.

Agreed. Nothing to do with WA and do not have restrictions on moving dirt on my farm. Also have letter from the Army Corps that this falls outside of their concern.

 

[Entropy1]

I wouldn't say that none of the information is relevant.

You can often come out ahead when purchasing used equipment for a large project, then reselling when complete - in lieu of renting. You'll come out way ahead compared to paying a contractor.

 

[skyking1]

Around here I can hire solo trucks with drivers for ~1000 a day.
2 trucks for 3 days = $6000
That's 7 minute rounds with the OP loading with his 322. 400 boxes of dirt, 133 a day.
That includes the guys in the seats.
can you possibly do anything less expensive in both your money and your time?
your time is worth at least $50 per hour. You could get an old truck for 20K and hope it holds together, and drag the job out to 3 weeks.
That sounds like misery to me. Just hire two trucks and have it bulked out in 3 days.
I figure 6 scoops with the GP bucket per load, a 2 minute load cycle is generous with the truck below you.
That gives the operator 5 minutes to dress and clean. He could add a truck but if it is a new gig for him, any hiccups and you have more $$ dancing in your head while you sort out a soft spot or something.
hang a laser target on the stick and cut the floor right to finish.
Pre-stake all the tops and slopes so you are not wasting time there. Maybe leave a little meat for the dozer to slope, but I prefer to slope with the excavator and be done with it.

 

[Entropy1]

Fastline can purchase an operational 10 yard dump truck at government surplus auction for about 6 to 8 grand. Then he may accomplish the work at his own comfortable 3-week long pace. When complete, he’ll own a dump truck. Or if he chooses, he can sell the dump truck - likely for some profit. As you’ve pointed out,- in this scenario he’d be ahead 6 to 8 grand in savings, while behind 3-weeks in schedule.

It’s easy to spend other people’s money in making construction-path recommendations. Be aware that Fastline may have assigned a different dollar-value to his time-variable for this project, than you have assigned. When people attack projects themselves, it's usually because they're trying to save money - not schedule.

 

[DMiller]

I will add, as a One Man show a ADT is great for Contractors with Employees, but with a Single hand on controls slows the entire game back to a crawl. Rubber tired Pan preferably a 615 Cat or LARGER, buy it, rent it, lease it, not going to get anything cheaper for the time spent and Spend LESS time moving earth. One man Load and deliver so long as do NOT get heavy handed trying to cut a foot deep every pass., get stockpile built THEN worry of levee construct and compaction. CAN utilize excavator to break the materials to softer lifts or just deal with having to take lighter cuts, Still gonna move More Dirt faster than a Ex and a Second man in a ADT or Commercial Dump truck.

Get lucky, get a second on the 7, get a push to load quicker and a hand to break out the hardpan earth so can make faster heavier runs.

End of game, put pan up for sale or return rental/lease unit.

 

[skyking1]

Fastline can purchase an operational 10 yard dump truck at government surplus auction for about 6 to 8 grand. Then he may accomplish the work at his own comfortable 3-week long pace. When complete, he’ll own a dump truck. Or if he chooses, he can sell the dump truck - likely for some profit. As you’ve pointed out,- in this scenario he’d be ahead 6 to 8 grand in savings, while behind 3-weeks in schedule.

It’s easy to spend other people’s money in making construction-path recommendations. Be aware that Fastline may have assigned a different dollar-value to his time-variable for this project, than you have assigned. When people attack projects themselves, it's usually because they're trying to save money - not schedule.

There are no money savings when you have to fix that truck. It is not at the auction because it is a jewel.

 

[Entropy1]

The vast majority of Government vehicles (County, State & Federal) get routine maintenance - many are garage kept. They are replaced when they age to make way for new vehicles (because they've got a budget to spend). The vehicles are pulled from operational service and sold at auction - often times in better running condition, and with far less miles, than a private-sector counterpart.

I'm much more comfortable purchasing a surplus government vehicle at auction - compared with purchasing within the used private sector market. Nine times out of ten the surplus government vehicle will be a better deal - both in operational condition, and cost.

 

[Entropy1]

A coworker bought a firetruck at auction for 3000 dollars (it had the diesel engine he needed to get his truck running). The fire truck had less than 40,000 miles on it. No dirt on the engine, no oil leaks - new tires, clean fluids, new filters throughout - again, government vehicles receive proper maintenance (full service shops). He pulled the engine, sold the tires, sold the rest as scrap. Got all his money back (with profit) - and a free engine (less his labor in pulling it).

 

[fastline]

As mentioned, I am open to buying a thing or two as long as we are not talking stupid money. The main thing here is I don't want to be stacking countless idle hours on the hoe while I go dump a truck.

As far and rolling solo, I can certainly get some asses to fit in seats, but I don't know anyone but myself qualified to run the dozer or hoe. Trucks I can prob get people for. I think I have a higher standard than most regarding an 'employee' because I tend to fire people quickly when they feel a grease gun is beneath them.

This project should go quickly if done right. 3 days and mostly done, but I will certainly have way more time in finishing and stripping back topsoil. I'm not too worried about that as long as I bulk the dirt to the target. .

It sounds like there is still hot debate on scrapers vs trucks. I really don't have an answer other than it seems scrapers can be quite picky in what they are working in, but a hoe can dig just about anything any get it in a truck. There is also the issue of availability. Like I said, we just don't have any scrapers around so guys that do have them feel their 60yo beat down scraper is worth $35k. I also have lost count how many people say "runs good", when my mechanical eyes can clearly see that is not the case.

Every hydro cylinder leaks, hydro oil that is a milk shake, but she runs great....... for 5min.

 

[IceHole]

I've never seen a scraper used here, even on big jobs, not sure why.
95% of it is excavator and dump trucks. Either 10 wheelers, 18-22 wheelers or off road trucks. Rock trucks, mine trucks, Euclid B70s, etc depending on the job.

The other 5% is loading with a front end loader.

Have to say loading and hauling alone feels like it's like eating a whale with a teaspoon.
12hrs of that and certainly get in the aerobics!

 

[IceHole]

I wouldn't say that none of the information is relevant.

You can often come out ahead when purchasing used equipment for a large project, then reselling when complete - in lieu of renting. You'll come out way ahead compared to paying a contractor.

As long as the equipment holds up though, so that's always a risk.
Plus fuel, and more so your time.

IE, buy an older D6 for $10k, and engine fails halfway into the project.

Put an engine in, so what $5k (im guessing) and maybe get 10k when sold.

 

[IceHole]

As mentioned, I am open to buying a thing or two as long as we are not talking stupid money. The main thing here is I don't want to be stacking countless idle hours on the hoe while I go dump a truck.

As far and rolling solo, I can certainly get some asses to fit in seats, but I don't know anyone but myself qualified to run the dozer or hoe. Trucks I can prob get people for. I think I have a higher standard than most regarding an 'employee' because I tend to fire people quickly when they feel a grease gun is beneath them.

This project should go quickly if done right. 3 days and mostly done, but I will certainly have way more time in finishing and stripping back topsoil. I'm not too worried about that as long as I bulk the dirt to the target. .

It sounds like there is still hot debate on scrapers vs trucks. I really don't have an answer other than it seems scrapers can be quite picky in what they are working in, but a hoe can dig just about anything any get it in a truck. There is also the issue of availability. Like I said, we just don't have any scrapers around so guys that do have them feel their 60yo beat down scraper is worth $35k. I also have lost count how many people say "runs good", when my mechanical eyes can clearly see that is not the case.

Every hydro cylinder leaks, hydro oil that is a milk shake, but she runs great....... for 5min.

Could always call the local guys in the off season and see if they have a truck and driver sitting around.
I've picked up extra hours here and there from people calling in.

 

[MG84]

My vote is still option number 1. Scraper, 2. ADT, 3. hire a couples locals with tandems, however I think you may be over analyzing the situation. In the grand scheme of things, for the size equipment you have, this is a small job. The wear on the dozer undercarriage, idle hours on the excavator, time wasted switching between vehicles, etc is fairly inconsequential IMO. We’re talking 4000yds not 400,000yds. Pick a time when you can get some help and a few days of dry weather and get after it with whatever trucks/equipment you can round up. Think of it this way, in the time this thread has been going you could have had the job done already.

 

[fastline]

I agree with that! I actually like the ADT idea other than I'd like a pair of them going, but whatev. Basically because I dig ponds....I use that 322 for them. I know exactly what to expect regarding time and performance. Peeling stuff out of the ground, I can probably get close to 3yd in a swing. Probably more than I should in that machine, but I go slow with that much load.

I will see what I can find for ADT rentals and such today. Sometimes I find that hiring in is better because the fuel is on them, there is a driver, they are insured, etc.

Another reason I like the ADT is their beds are robust so I could nearly drop clay on them at any height without concern.

Something else I like on ADT trucks is the heaped pile they will make. A scraper is going to need to drive on the berm and I can see a roll over hazard if too soft or peaked.

But in some of this, I am trying to plan/design right now. I usually waste a lot of time in this phase because I don't like saying "I wish I would have". I'm trying to think how I plan to contour the berms, get the top soil peeled away, how I will put it back, and what the slopes/grades should be.

I know I want them around 6ft tall, but also wide enough at the top that an ATV can be on them. I will plan trees and such into them. I used to work on golf course shaping and always amazed how fast we can burn dirt for a little hill. I'm trying to ensure my estimated 4k yds should not be 10k.

Let's just say I have this grand plan in my head and I can see it, but I need to align the steps.

 

[Welder Dave]

For the berms I think if you put the piles close together and several feet higher than required, you could just drive your D7 across the top for initial shaping. If you want to drive ATV's across the top make sure the slopes aren't too extreme where there would be an instant roll over if a tire went over the edge. If you have lots of material and could make the slopes running the dozer lengthwise instead of up and down would be the fastest. It would also let you pack the sides of the berm pretty fast. If they're going to have grass, mowing lengthwise would also be much faster.

Careful placement of the piles would make things a lot faster and easier. You may not want to back up to dump but it could be way faster than having to move random piles around 2 or 3 times or move dirt from a central pile.

On a smaller scale when I was putting a slope on the corners of my oval track, it didn't take long to shape when the piles were basically right where I needed them. Each corner needed approx. 500yds. to make the slope. I was a little shocked it took so much material but the shaping went pretty fast.

 

[fastline]

No, the berms aren't really intended to be mowed. I will plant native grasses and wild flower on them for a low maint strategy, and to grow taller grasses to add to the screening effect. But I don't want to make them so extreme that they look like unnatural piles of dirt. It will be a mix of hills and valleys to create a more natural appearance.

On other projects, I am usually able to do some decent shaping with the excavator, then dress it with a CTL. I am not really a master of the dozer and might end up making more of a mess is my concern.

 

[Welder Dave]

A CTL could be pretty fast shaping the berms but the dozer with wider tracks would be better for packing it in. You don't want the berm to get parts of it washed away or develop deep rain ruts if you get a heavy rain before the wild flowers or whatever grows in.

 

[fastline]

A CTL could be pretty fast shaping the berms but the dozer with wider tracks would be better for packing it in. You don't want the berm to get parts of it washed away or develop deep rain ruts if you get a heavy rain before the wild flowers or whatever grows in.

Agreed. This was part of my thinking in going with a scraper. I will have to think more on the compaction side. I also don't want to waste time shaping poorly compacted soil that will move a lot causing rework. Just throwing the dozer tracts on it alone should help a bunch.

 

[DMiller]

Both a CTL or your 7 will not compact to what needs to be, are built intentionally Low Ground Pressure, being on Tracks. Sheeps foot, Anything Rubber Tire running back and forth over shallow lifts, need Ground Pressure and not displacing pressure in that process.