1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Time to sell the backhoe, or think it is...

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by Spud_Monkey, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    .
    Owned this old Ford 4500 since last October used it on the property for about 2 months and seems it will get me killed within a year if I keep it.
    Slides all over the wet/moist clay to point of no control with the hills and when it gets going there is no stopping almost flipping sometimes especially when you are going up a incline and slides sideways. Has no power steering due to P.O. took it off which trying to turn that with loaded bucket is work out in itself, can't climb on wet/moist clay, likes to pop wheelies going up hills (yeah weights work if you had power steering), parts are obsolete mostly. Lastly if I get my semi stuck with a trailer, it can't pull it out, lacks power and traction. Now when it's dry sure works great besides no power steering. Wife wants me to keep it I see it as accident waiting to happen.
    So I'm thinking sell it and buy a crawler loader or a bulldozer with backhoe attachment, will take about 6 months of no projects to afford it. Question is will chains stop most of this and if not will a crawler of the sorts do the same?
     
    DMiller likes this.
  2. skyking1

    skyking1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,480
    Location:
    washington
    I think you are on the right tracks, pun intended. The only big concern is how far flung your holdings are, and the ability to road it. If you can haul your dozer then that is solved. A modern 4wd hoe would a lot better, but still the wet clay defeats everything, and tires more than tracks.
    Don kid yourself though. sidehilling on a dozer is no fun on slick stuff. You need to get things flat in the one direction right from the start.
     
    DMiller, Spud_Monkey and sled dog like this.
  3. colson04

    colson04 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,056
    Location:
    Delton, Michigan
    I deal with wet clay every spring and fall. I went to chains on my 2wd backhoe, and over the tire tracks on my skid steer for mud season. The chains on the backhoe made a huge difference for me. There is a reason loggers run massive chains on their skidders, they work. I went with the duo-grip chains and they've worked very well for me. I still have issues with front tires sliding on slippery surface when turning, but you can chain the front steer tires or use turning brakes on backhoe, if they work. For under $500, chains are probably worth trying out. And getting your power steering fixed, if possible.
     
  4. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,488
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Small Tracked Loader with a Hoe will seem awkward at first but can drop the hoe off when need just as a loader and come get that when need to hoe around!! 931, 951, 555G even a 455G will be as much as you will need. Just remember Tracks DO and CAN get as stuck or slide just as bad.
     
    old-iron-habit and Spud_Monkey like this.
  5. doghead

    doghead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2017
    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    NY
    I think most track loaders will have shallow grousers. That may not work as well as you are hoping for.
     
  6. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2014
    Messages:
    5,700
    Location:
    Canada
    I have a 931B with a backhoe. If it's soft you'll be pulling yourself out with the hoe. Most will have triple grousers, newer might have double grousers but on a slippery slope are probably worse than tires for sliding sideways. Very heavy on the back with the hoe on. Somebody else on here fixed the power steering on a Ford. I think trying the chains would be a relatively cheap way of seeing how much they help. If you do sell the sell hoe, you can ask more for the chains or sell them separately for close to what you paid. They're likely a common size. Maybe a newer 4 wheel drive TLB would be a good option? No undercarriage to worry about.
     
    Spud_Monkey and DMiller like this.
  7. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    .
    Well with shallow grousers I figure weld some rebar on them as to add height maybe skip every two of them. The ground isn't soft at all, its hard as a rock and slick as such when the clay gets wet. Seems like a crawler of sorts would have lower center of gravity to handle a slide better and not bounce as it slides around which has me worried. When I say no traction and sliding we are talking 4 degrees or more not 20 degrees which I wouldn't dare take any equipment up on that steep when wet. Another problem as I mentioned is the power to pull the semi out with the trailer, case in point I have 9k lb trailer with 2000 gallons water on it and 100 gallons of diesel with 20k lb semi and that backhoe isn't budging it even with chains on all 8 wheels on the semi helping to move.
    Another thing I noticed is one bump when grading with front end loader and it messes everything up, plus not enough weight in that backhoe to pack the clay down as I want or dig in with front end loader. Though might try a Piranha blade on the front of it or something of the likes with chains and see where we get.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  8. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    .
    This is what I found after digging some...
    https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/steep-slopes-on-dozers.4216/
    Another reason I think a crawler loader or dozer would be great is wildfire fighting and creating firebreaks before one gets too close.. Don't see a backhoe working that effective or that close to a active brush fire on these terrains especially if you hit a sand rock bed or scoria along with shoving over a tree without digging it up first.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
    DMiller likes this.
  9. skyking1

    skyking1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,480
    Location:
    washington
    All of that post is with LGP machines with wide tracks. A crawler loader is a relatively high pressure machine by necessity of excavating a path you can fit in. They do not sidehill worth a damn. My first dozer was a JD350 loader that we swapped out every other triple for a dozer single grouser. The ground was universally soft in the woods and it helped wonders skidding out logs. It would beat me to death on hard surfaces. You can get all sorts of work out of a crawler loader, as long as you understand the limitations. One of them is no tilt so you come at a road cut sideways to dig a slot to get your track down and your frame flat to the world. Cuts are OK, fills are more troublesome as you will taper off to the downhill side as you compact the thicker lift there, so you regroup and get a track down and go at it again, you spend a lot of time making little turns to fix that lack of tilt.
     
    westerner, Spud_Monkey and DMiller like this.
  10. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,488
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Just NOT a Orphan Spud, bad enough to find repair parts for still produced machines, do not fall into the cheaper Orphan Trap as I had and so many others do. Actually a median sized Excavator may do you better for the excavation for shelters, a small single grouser dozer for the remaining work.
     
    skyking1, Spud_Monkey and hosspuller like this.
  11. skyking1

    skyking1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,480
    Location:
    washington
    yes on the not orphan thing. Hard enough without that handicap.
     
    DMiller, 56wrench and Spud_Monkey like this.
  12. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    .
    Don't worry I am looking at Caterpillar or John Deere, maybe a Case. Komatsu looks too iffy unless I am looking at it wrong. I have a John Deere stealership up the road not going to buy from there but I might be able to find parts there if I owned one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
    56wrench and DMiller like this.
  13. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,488
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Deere are not bad machines just pricey as are Cat
    Komatsu are a grab bag of issues but some people really like them, look like cat but little cat stuff will interchange
    Chains are not too expensive for the hoe
    Would keep it as are handy for little jobs where a full track is too much.
     
    Spud_Monkey likes this.
  14. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    .
    Going to have to put any buying off for now, apparently my solar system didn't like the 6 months of rain in Peoples Republic of Washington state so batteries are dead after 2 years. Flushed $1000 down the drain staying there too long, 8 batteries. Going with forklift battery this time and getting more solar panels to keep up with such load needed to keep said battery above 80% SOC (state of charge).
     
    DMiller likes this.
  15. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2014
    Messages:
    5,700
    Location:
    Canada
    Make sure to keep batteries water/acid topped off if they have removeable covers. I have a solar panel for a 5th wheel and when I checked the batteries after about 8 month's they were really low on fluid. It's just a simple system compared to yours but I was surprised they lost so much battery acid. I filled them up with rain water.
     
    Camshawn, Spud_Monkey and DMiller like this.
  16. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    6,753
    Location:
    WI
    KISS, generator when it's cold and cloudy, golf cart batteries above 50%, and use the hoe when it's dry and chop wood when it's damp out.
     
    Finca SDR and DMiller like this.
  17. old-iron-habit

    old-iron-habit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    4,147
    Occupation:
    Retired Cons't. Supt./Hospitals
    Location:
    Moose Lake, MN
    The biggest problem with the old Ford TLBs and most other brands as well is that the backhoe does not fold up very tight to the machine, but hang back a fair amount compaired to newer machines. This keeps the front end vey light when the bucket is empty.

    Your Ford power steering pump should be belt driven. Mine was replaced by one off a old Ford pickup. The entire system resembles an old Ford pickup and a entire system could probably be fairly adapted to your tractor.

    I agree with the tire chains front and rear. It makes a day to night difference. Use a old pair of cut down log truck or oilfield chains on the front. If you were closer I'd give you a set. They should be easy to find for little to nothing. Throw a wanted add on Facebook or Craigs list. The weight added to the front tires will help keep the steering axle on the ground when the bucket is empty beside adding steering traction. When not using the backhoe, dropping the bucket off makes a huge handling difference as well as giving you more ground clearance under the dipper.
    Now after saying this, I must confess. I sold my old Fordson TLB a month ago. I had not used it as a backhoe in the last few years after buying my 931 Cat with 4n1 and quiktach hoe.
     
    aighead, Spud_Monkey and DMiller like this.
  18. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    .
    Technically your supposed to equalize them every 30 days as I would except problem with my system is I didn't cycle them enough for use and wasn't around to do so when it was in Washington state. Had I been in Montana since I had them or anywhere but the Pacific Northwest they would of survived. Having solar in a place that gets 1.5 hrs on average of sunlight a day is not going to be cheap to keep them up. Requires 10 - 13% of the AH to charge them which at 50 amps going in on my system requires a lot of generator running time especially when it's a 10kw. Supposed to use deionized water or distilled water to fill them up.

    When you design a system you design it to run on so many days without sunlight while trying to keep the SOC above 80% for maximum cycles it will last. We are in a camper that fits in the back of a pickup truck none of that works on wood and such. Generator is for those very rare longer than average days without sunlight and for equalizing the batteries.

    Basically the system was not cycled enough and remained below the allotted SOC a battery should be at and couple times went to 0% when I wasn't around for a week. I believe the batteries on the semi dragged them down through parasitic draw. This system was not designed for Pacific Northwest rain forest as no solar system would be, it's counterintuitive.
    Newer system will be forklift battery that can be turned from series/parallel to series when I get my house built, which means going from 24V to 48V. Ordering some bifacial panels to put enough amps out for size of the bank and hooking up another charge controller that will follow the one I currently have and never going back to that side of Washington state, after all I snapped the rear axle on my Mystery Ship, it needs to go into retirement.
    Current system I built
    1800 watts solar panels, Midnite 150SL charge controller, (8) GC batteries 440 AH @24V to combiner box one throw shut-down switch and 6kw 120/240V inverter/charger. Yes the inverter is oversized but it is for future growth as I need now.
     
    DMiller likes this.
  19. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    .
    Seem to want gold for them on Craigslist here for set of chains more than they want for new ones that go for $500, thinking I might make my own. Problem is I have to rip apart the steering and diagnose where it broke. Somehow they disconnected the lines to the steering ram and the pump isn't pumping out fluid everywhere as I guess that's what it would do. I can find the pump easy just not the steering ram they left the ports wide open on it for rain to get into.
    Let me finish this half hoop workshop and I will tear into it.
     
    DMiller and old-iron-habit like this.
  20. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,211
    Location:
    .
    Ripped the front off and took look around while following the lines. They disconnected the lines going to hydraulic steering ram and left it laying in there then ran the line back to the steering pump, so it's a loop for the pump. Where they disconnected it from the ram it's pitted with rust and trash in it, that hydraulic steering ram is shot. Seems to be cheaper to pay for a whole Ford 4500 backhoe for $4000 or less than spend $850 on used ram at least I will have hard to find parts on hand if I keep this thing.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/C5NN3N500D...223657?hash=item1a75a9fa69:g:nEoAAOSwkvdaeM4W
     
    DMiller likes this.