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Time to sell the backhoe, or think it is...

Discussion in 'Tractor/Loader/Backhoes' started by Spud_Monkey, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. Outdoort

    Outdoort Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2021
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    Location:
    Greensburg Pa.
    Reading this thread it sounds like maybe you are planning to build your own house? Starting with the pole building? Sounds like fun!
    I just got my first backhoe a couple days ago delivered. I totally agree with what a lot of people here are saying, try to buy a good machine in the first place, or go fix your current one.
    Buying a second machine for $3000 just for the parts and transporting it back home.... in your situation I wouldn't reccomend that. Just find a shop to repair the power steering and move on. Or find the part you need online and move on. You got other work that needs done bro! You cant be dicking with this thing too much longer.
    And yes, Id be buying chains for all 4 tires and seeing how that works out for you in the mud.

    I looked at a old ford 750 backhoe (posted about it here) before buying my current case 580 super k. So glad I didn't buy that old ford. Ya I'm sure I could have gotten it up and running and maybe make it a nice machine over time, but I stretched myself as much as I could to buy the nicest machine I could possibly buy, and with just a few small repairs should be ready to work for me this summer. I spend 11k on that 580... the Ford I could have bought for $3500, maybe $3000. And a big part too of spending that extra money initially was that now I have a machine that is 4x4 and extendahoe, which the ford didn't have. Our time is valueable. Good luck in whatever you decide to do man! Keep us updated!
     
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  2. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    Yes our time is valuable, either I spend twice as long or three times trying to steer the old one with no power steering on each task and add them up to a month. Been looking since January for the part online at least a rebuildable core I don't care if it worked or not, it's not a universal ram you can buy on www.supplysurplus.com or any sight for that matter. F18422.jpg F18423.jpg F18424.jpg
    There is 3 different variations and the one I did find that doesn't work with mine that was in stock at the time was $850. That's just part of the problem for an example. So lets say all is lost with backhoe, $11k would require another 6 plus months of doing nothing, zilch nothing. Then lets adding rental for a machine $1500 a week, not much can be had in 40 hrs in what I need done, more of if I have 400 hours I might get it done.
    Now lets break down the costs of getting this @$3000 which would equal $1500 in fuel and the rest of expenses are for bean counting. That's $4500 which would get me about a month in rental of 160 hrs or so and you only have some work to show for it but no machinery to complete task at hand. I'm not picking 232 pound poles up by hand setting them upright in the holes on top of the 200 lb reinforced concrete pads as I weld them to the anchors, surely not picking the trusses I welded from pipe up either.
    Took a week vacation cause I work from sun up to sun down 7 days a week here and went and got it, it sits on back of my trailer now for a paltry $2200. Could of been a wasted trip but we are taking it as a vacation so as to make more of it than just getting a backhoe. Had to put some muscle into it but I got it on the trailer with a chain hoist and a dedicated wife to help. Loading it up was fun it was almost as if we were in suburbia in Seattle plus the traffic coming by, no room to park except in a ditch and signs saying no trailers over 30' or over 18 tons, but we did it. Had previous owner not put his di ck beaters on it would of drove right up the ramps, no he pulled the injectors with no clue thinking he could bleed the air from the lines that way.
    I sat on the nose facing backwards and straddling the hood bottle feeding it starter fluid while the wife drove it up the hill out the yard. When we got it lined up with the ramps it was very steep the bucket dragged and we started it while in gear and pulled with chain hoist at same time.
    When I get it home I will spend another week move parts around and we will have a operating backhoe till next spring which by then I will have enough saved up to buy a nice one and possibly sell the two as a deal package.
     
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  3. The Peej

    The Peej Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    I've said it before and it still holds true. NO ONE SHOULD GET INFRONT OF SPUD MONKEY. he will absolutely steam roll right over you and not think twice.
     
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  4. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Senior Member

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    On A Riverbank in IL. USA
    I admire your creativity and perseverance Spudmonkey.
    You sure are an interesting person ! I mean that in a good way.
    I also like your reasoning for not renting and buying a parts machine. I would have done the same.
     
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  5. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    I would have bought a parts machine too, but not that far, I thought you were going to Tiblisi. Next time, give up pictures of the problem first, there's always a way to cobble something if you don't feel like buying a whole machine for one part.
     
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  6. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

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    With Ford you think the power steering would have been used on other tractors and just need to find out which ones. They were pretty popular in the day and a tractor wrecker somewhere might just have what you're looking for. I know for some heavy equipment there is a network of dealers who sell used parts and have a data base to help find what you're looking for. The shop that did my engine found a cast oil pan used to replace the stamped pan that got a hole punched in it through the opening for the drain. Had to cut bolts the proper length to install it but the cast pan is a big improvement. The cast pan was $350 and a new stamped pan was about $750 if I recall. I have a bolt on cover for the drain plug now.
     
  7. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2016
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    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Mount Tabor VT
    4500 was built from the 4000 farm tractor. Scratch the yellow paint, there is blue underneath. Axle was beefier, maybe power steering too.
     
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  8. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    Even if that part is the only one in the world, lots of tractor makers used a similar power steering system based on a sloppy mechanical linkage operating the valve on the top, and the valve operating a similar cylinder. I know Spud could fit a valve and cylinder from a Ford, MF, Leyland or whatever's at the junkyard into that backhoe. Or run lines from the existing valve to a hydraulic cylinder mounted on the tie rod like newer systems. Less hassle than running to Georgia? maybe not.

    So if the new power steering doesn't work quite right, we can figure it out, probably.
     
  9. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    New one works pretty well from the cranking and the wife was able to drive it as I rode the hood up the hill. Plus I can fill it when I crank on it turning the wheel to steer it up the trailer.
    Anywho disclaimer: I did not take these pictures, but enjoy!
    Team work!!! Wife driving I'm spraying notice the exhaust smoke...:eek: S2430008.JPG
    Nice place to set the ramps up S2430006.JPG
    Up we go ;) S2430011.JPG S2430016.JPG
     
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  10. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Got to admit, wife did get a sort of vacation to another state.
     
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  11. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    Yes she did and a few states she hasn't been to. I will play nice and reward her with a trip to Laura Ingalls Wilder house in South Dakota on the way home since she enjoys the Little House on the Prairie books amongst others. Watching Blackhawks flying over our heads here in Kentucky near Ft. Campbell KY and she is giving me this weird "don't you think about it" look :p
     
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  12. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Mount Tabor VT
    You're spoiling her. But manning the hoist tugging your sorry A$s onto the trailer will keep her in shape!

    1980 early winter the town water system was 100 years old galvanized 2" water pipe. It was surprisingly good condition except where a thread had been cut. It might run hundreds of feet, with factory threads on galv 21' pipe, then a 16' with cut thread one end.

    The close friend hired to dig my water line was nowhere to be found when the operator of the water system came to me. He worried about me turning the street off in cold weather. It was about to turn very cold. After an hour or more trying to locate the owner of the Ford 4500 he had brought, I dug it up to make the tap. As luck would have it, the field threaded joint was 2' from my tap. It started spewing! My friend got involved. By 7:00 PM in December we had a section replaced & tapped with a union.

    That 4500 was one of two bought new by brothers on the same day. Not that one, the other is still in use by the grandson of the other brother. I hate the thing! Four lever control is no fun, I can't move it without a front bucket full, front wheels don't touch the ground. steering is with brakes. It seems to always be wallowing as if two flat tires.
     
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  13. Spud_Monkey

    Spud_Monkey Senior Member

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    Sounds like you got a abnormal sized bucket on the back cause I manage to keep the wheels on the ground until I hit about 21 percent grade and it's doing a wheelie up which I put the stabilizers down just in case it gets out of control. As for the four lever controls, only part I hate is not having ability to work 2 or more controls simultaneously unless this new one I got can do so, then I really would be moving along. Without power steering, steering was done with brakes here too best I could with something in the FEL bucket.
     
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  14. Willie B

    Willie B Senior Member

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    Jan 3, 2016
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    2,330
    Occupation:
    Electrician
    Location:
    Mount Tabor VT
    Transport latches are usually non functional on these hogs & boom settles. Gotta frequently pull it back up.
     
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  15. Jshopes81

    Jshopes81 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2020
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    15020
    Holy smokes, at those prices listed earlier i stole my 4500, and it works really well. I just saw one of these machines at 1500 for the whole machine with a bad motor in ohio. Ill say i really like my 4500, i bought it with a bunch of advice from these guys, if you find one not too far from pittsburgh i can do some scouting for you. Seems the prices around here are way better than out there.
     
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  16. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

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    Almost Retired
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    ALL Wives have that "look", is fair warning that the reprisal will be severe IF you go there!!!!:eek::p
     
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  17. aighead

    aighead Senior Member

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    Apr 25, 2019
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    @Spud_Monkey if you roll through Dayton on your way home (seems unlikely) look me up! You guys are beasts hoisting that thing on the truck and your ramps look terrifying!
     
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  18. Mike4799

    Mike4799 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Texas
    Hey Spud. You are missing a lucrative opportunity if you are not youtubering your adventures.
    There is a sizeable segment of viewers who just eat up all the "will it start" and "cheapest worst in the country" videos.
    You get someone like Vetech hooked who likes a good mechanical/trainwreck drama and he will be talking about it to every counter jockey he runs into. You will have 1/2 million subs and the money will be rolling in before you know it.
    You seem like a younger, but just as ornery Warren - Western Truck &Tractor Repair.
    Seriously. I am only half joking...
     
  19. berky

    berky Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Indiana
    the 4500 was actually closer to a 5000 than a 4000 series. power steering, transmissions, and others were similar if not exact to 5000 models. Owned a couple 4500's and still have one. In there days they were severe workhorses. Ford made the hydraulics so powerful and the metal so thin than most of them broke in multiple places. I recently rebuilt the front power steering cylinder on mine and it was not to bad a job. Did have a slight problem when I got it back on the tractor, wheels always pulled in one direction which is why I took it off in the first place. Took it back off and when through it again. This time I powered it up on the bench with air pressure and sure enough the attached spool was slightly leaking in one direction. There was no way to adjust anything in the spool to keep it in any sort of center position. I had to figure for a while but then put a dial indicator on the spool and found that moving the spool valve 0.020 resulted in no leaks. Took the spool valve apart ( hard to get everything back together, not enough hands) and installed a 0.020 shim on the proper side. Worked like a charm when done.
    One other note: The design and operation of the power steering system being so complex, it is absolutely necessary that there be no play in any of the system. this goes from the drag link ends, the various sector arms, and the cylinder ends. I had to completely remove all these components and make new bushings where necessary. Any slop and the system won't work right.
    Good luck.
     
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  20. Delmer

    Delmer Senior Member

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    I guess I was wrong, I thought it was "slop compensated" like the MF and Leylands. I'll have to look up the system and see.
     
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