Nige
Senior Member
Full power is available up to 11,000ft ASL according to the test spec data for the engine.
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Suggestions on rough starting? 345BL
- Thread starter Jeremy Whittaker
- Start date
skyking1
Senior Member
I thought it might get a mention in the start procedure.
Nige
Senior Member
All that the O&M makes reference to is starting at ambient temperatures below freezing point.
Jeremy Whittaker
Well-Known Member
Attachments
oarwhat
Senior Member
All that thing needs is a block heater or a slight wiff of ether.
Nige
Senior Member
Search instead for "altitude". You will find these.........
Jeremy Whittaker
Well-Known Member
Here is my start from yesterday. I wasn't cranking the engine sputtered like this on its own then finally kicked over. It was about 36 degrees out. Much colder than when I typically start it. https://photos.app.goo.gl/JbvH9LrE12ahGMMv8
I replaced that air valve that was recommended in prior posts.
I drained the fuel tank, much less sentiment, no water.
I opened the fuel/water separator. Didn't appear to be any water in the mix.
I didn't prime it as I wanted to see how my last changes would impact it without prom priming. Next time I go up I'll prime and see the difference.
I replaced that air valve that was recommended in prior posts.
I drained the fuel tank, much less sentiment, no water.
I opened the fuel/water separator. Didn't appear to be any water in the mix.
I didn't prime it as I wanted to see how my last changes would impact it without prom priming. Next time I go up I'll prime and see the difference.
Here's a tip for starting older engines when it is cold, once you know you are getting fuel indicated by black smoke.
Crank for maybe 15 seconds, then let whatever heat was generated soak in for a minute or more. Then repeat. Even if it is not firing at all you're generating a bit oh heat. Be patient, let it sit plenty of time between cranking.
I have a 345D with C13. We start it below zero without aid ( not by choice, just no current bushes on our jobs). If you have an electric primer pump it can help to cycle that between crankings.
We also use full synthetic 5w 40 to help with cranking and reduce engine damage during cold starts.
Crank for maybe 15 seconds, then let whatever heat was generated soak in for a minute or more. Then repeat. Even if it is not firing at all you're generating a bit oh heat. Be patient, let it sit plenty of time between cranking.
I have a 345D with C13. We start it below zero without aid ( not by choice, just no current bushes on our jobs). If you have an electric primer pump it can help to cycle that between crankings.
We also use full synthetic 5w 40 to help with cranking and reduce engine damage during cold starts.
BC Placer gold
Senior Member
That is an electronic c-13?
Our 1999 c-12 (truck application) is one of the best starting diesels we own; and we are much colder than you…it will easily start at -10c with minimal smoke and settle immediately to a nice smooth idle. I never start it normally though without block heater/oil heater (not because it won’t start but to save engine wear and tear)
I am not a good enough mechanic to comment further…but something sure doesn’t seem right.
Good luck and thanks for the updates.
Our 1999 c-12 (truck application) is one of the best starting diesels we own; and we are much colder than you…it will easily start at -10c with minimal smoke and settle immediately to a nice smooth idle. I never start it normally though without block heater/oil heater (not because it won’t start but to save engine wear and tear)
I am not a good enough mechanic to comment further…but something sure doesn’t seem right.
Good luck and thanks for the updates.
Shimmy1
Senior Member
Looks and sounds to me like a tired old electronic Clatterpilla that needs a good freshening. The 3196 in my 95E isn't quite that bad, but it wants no part of running when I start it below 20F. It will stumble and smoke and knock and basically make you think it's never going to take off for a good 5-7 seconds, then just like that the white smoke comes and it smooths right out. Just like your video.
BC Placer gold
Senior Member
Good info!
skyking1
Senior Member
standing by for the primer start in similar conditions.
BC Placer gold
Senior Member
We are having trouble recently with the Cummins L10 in our dump truck (PT pump)….long repeated crank times resulting in rough/“sputtering start”. Used fuel tank vent hose (non vented fuel cap) to apply low air pressure to tank.…fired right up.
Nige
Senior Member
Jeremy Whittaker
Well-Known Member
Mobil Delvac 1300 Super Heavy Duty Synthetic Blend Diesel Engine Oil 15W-40
BC Placer gold
Senior Member
Some years ago we plowed large commercial lots with a Unimog; 0-40w full synthetic made a big difference for those 3am cold starts! This truck had no block heater.
If I recall correctly we used Shell Rotella.
Shimmy1
Senior Member
My limited research says that we are discussing a 3176 engine. I spent 6000 hours in a Challenger 75C tractor with the same engine. Cold starting was not terrible, but it only had a 12V system with 2 batteries. Below 15F, forget it without a sniff. From 15 to 30, it would start similar to Jeremy's here. Better, but not much. Even with new injectors it still burped and knocked and farted around for several seconds before getting its crap together. My 3196 engines start similar, even at 35F.
I have been around a lot of this family of engines, many Challengers and more than a few C12s in trucks. The C12s do not seem to have near the problems getting smoothed out like the tractors, but they still do. I've always wondered what Cat does with the timing and fuel on a cold start to make them so choppy. 3406E, C13, C15 don't seem to light the same.
I have been around a lot of this family of engines, many Challengers and more than a few C12s in trucks. The C12s do not seem to have near the problems getting smoothed out like the tractors, but they still do. I've always wondered what Cat does with the timing and fuel on a cold start to make them so choppy. 3406E, C13, C15 don't seem to light the same.
Jeremy Whittaker
Well-Known Member
So this is the start from yesterday - https://photos.app.goo.gl/M7zu3A1x8vutd15NA
To summarize I started flushing the bottom of the fuel tank. I've done it 3 times since this start. I probably remove about 4oz of pure black crud the first time. Now it seems to be pretty minimal.
I've been draining the fuel/water separator (seems like there is never any water in there). No crud in there since I cleaned it out a couple of weekends ago.
Changed the fuel filter. 12/9
Changed the fuel/water separator filter. 12/9
Primed this start.12/16
I'm ok with this rough start since it's an old machine (1998) of this is normal and isn't going to cause any damage. I was just more so trying to figure out if there was anything proactive I could do to stop it. But it sounds like from recommendations I have a couple options left.
1. Change the oil to a lighter oil. I've only done one oil change since I got it. I'll do another one after it sits over the winter. It currently has Mobil Delvac 1300 Super Heavy Duty Synthetic Blend Diesel Engine Oil 15W-40. Should I stick with this same oil just a different weight?
2. Buy some type of heater block to warm it up first.
If what I'm doing isn't causing any damage and is just a minor annoyance I'm ok just living with this.
To summarize I started flushing the bottom of the fuel tank. I've done it 3 times since this start. I probably remove about 4oz of pure black crud the first time. Now it seems to be pretty minimal.
I've been draining the fuel/water separator (seems like there is never any water in there). No crud in there since I cleaned it out a couple of weekends ago.
Changed the fuel filter. 12/9
Changed the fuel/water separator filter. 12/9
Primed this start.12/16
I'm ok with this rough start since it's an old machine (1998) of this is normal and isn't going to cause any damage. I was just more so trying to figure out if there was anything proactive I could do to stop it. But it sounds like from recommendations I have a couple options left.
1. Change the oil to a lighter oil. I've only done one oil change since I got it. I'll do another one after it sits over the winter. It currently has Mobil Delvac 1300 Super Heavy Duty Synthetic Blend Diesel Engine Oil 15W-40. Should I stick with this same oil just a different weight?
2. Buy some type of heater block to warm it up first.
If what I'm doing isn't causing any damage and is just a minor annoyance I'm ok just living with this.
Gary Layton
Well-Known Member
Good deal on the fuel tank flush.
I'm not an expert but that 35 seconds of cranking the starter seems like it would be injurious eventually to the starter.
My 320 typically cranks up within three seconds... It always has ever since I got it. Maybe I'm just lucky.
I'll be curious to see what the pros say.
I'm not an expert but that 35 seconds of cranking the starter seems like it would be injurious eventually to the starter.
My 320 typically cranks up within three seconds... It always has ever since I got it. Maybe I'm just lucky.
I'll be curious to see what the pros say.
Nige
Senior Member
Check your messages. The details were there…..