telivader
New Member
I have a tracked Cat, and it is scary if you are on hard pack or ice!! It is great on everything else.
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Skid Steer with snow blower???
- Thread starter Canadian_digger
- Start date
JGS
Active Member
I have have been running a ctl in snow for quite a few years now. Rubber tracks are terrible on hard packed snow, ice, glazed surfaces, or especially steep grades. I will only use my ctl with the snowblower. I have found as long as you drive forward with equal power going to both tracks, you can get enough traction to use the blower. There are are tracks made by Bridgestone called Polar tracks designed specifically for snow. I have no experience with them. But heard they offer better traction than the oem tracks.
telivader
New Member
We switched to studded Master Craft MSR snow tires on our New Holland. They have lasted for 3 seasons and counting. The traction is fantastic, and no more blowing through chains every season. They are not as good as chains for plowing, but with the blower, I will never go back.
CRAFT
Senior Member
adan ! ...you're in flatland country you won't have a problem ..... take a bunch of short sheet metal screws and stud the track like we do on snowmobiles there are even special studs for CTL's for that purpose too .... BC also has winter tracks now available if you wanna spend the big bucks ...
telivader ? ... not a big problem but the guy was wanting to know about a TRACKED skid-steer and not a Tired Skid-steer, LOL but seeing you mentioned the Mastercraft tires who sells them ? ....Canadian Tire ? ..... :beatsme
telivader ? ... not a big problem but the guy was wanting to know about a TRACKED skid-steer and not a Tired Skid-steer, LOL but seeing you mentioned the Mastercraft tires who sells them ? ....Canadian Tire ? ..... :beatsme
Buhler snowblower
Hi,
I was hoping someone could help me. We picked up a Buhler 7422 HSB 1 snowblower on an auction. We have it on a 80 horse skid steer with 3000 psi rating. It has 23 gallons per minute. The issue is that it just doesn't seem to blow far...we were thinking it would blow at least 25 feet, but it just doesn't seem to be able to do close to that. I know the HSB-1 model has the lowest gpm needs, middle teens. What is our best way to remedy this? I read in the manual something about adjusting the hydraulic module, but the fan is always supposed to be the primary motor anyway, but could that be an issue? Should we buy a HSB-3 motor which would be rated closer to 23 gpm? Or is that not as much a problem as just that the fan doesn't have the capacity. Its 22 inches in diameter. The skid steer seems to have the power, it doesn't bog down. We need help?
Hi,
I was hoping someone could help me. We picked up a Buhler 7422 HSB 1 snowblower on an auction. We have it on a 80 horse skid steer with 3000 psi rating. It has 23 gallons per minute. The issue is that it just doesn't seem to blow far...we were thinking it would blow at least 25 feet, but it just doesn't seem to be able to do close to that. I know the HSB-1 model has the lowest gpm needs, middle teens. What is our best way to remedy this? I read in the manual something about adjusting the hydraulic module, but the fan is always supposed to be the primary motor anyway, but could that be an issue? Should we buy a HSB-3 motor which would be rated closer to 23 gpm? Or is that not as much a problem as just that the fan doesn't have the capacity. Its 22 inches in diameter. The skid steer seems to have the power, it doesn't bog down. We need help?
Colorado Digger
Senior Member
i think you need high flow for a blower
Canadian_digger
Senior Member
When I was looking around to buy a blower. They really stressed that the blower needed to be matched to the gpm that the machine put out to perform properly. I have a Quick Attach regular flow blower and my machine flows around 22gpm if I remember right, and it will blow fluffy snow about 25-30. If the snow it heavy that distance drops a lot.
CRAFT
Senior Member
7422-1 is a good unit, and there are alot of ways to play with what you've got there !
Providing you actually are suppling 23gpm .... the type-1 series uses the 2000 series eaton motors (2) with a 6.2 cu.in disp. ..... the thing is you can throttle back a bit to reduce the gpm ..... but you have to know if the fan impeller is at rpm ..... maybe this will help .... (23gpm x 231) divide that by 6.2 cu.in = 857 rpm (@ 100%) but they call it drive train loss you use the figs @ 80% = 685rpm fan impeller speed .... I did alot of playing around with my 8424-4 it ran at 575rpm (@80% w/stock gearing) I changed the fan gearing from 15t x 15t, and geared it up to 20t (bottom sprocket on motor) X 15t (top sprocket-fan shaft) .... now its ~747rpm .... It'll put the dry snow out to 80' (measured it) .... but in the heavier snow it'll stall out abit easier now .... I had to play with the hyd module that adjusts the priority flow from auger to fan or visa/versa ..... But you have to know what the fan is doing ! .... yours rpm is plenty according to the hyd formulas (math) I checked mine with a hand held Stewart Warner tach (available at any auto parts place, ~$70.. money well spent)... its easy to use, the butt end of the fan shaft is exposed behind your attachment Q/A plate (you won't get bitten by the chain and sprockets, they are in behind the housing, you'll see it) ... I checked it many times and the formulas are acurate for the math calculated RPM
I have another Allied/Buhler blower that was converted from a 3 pt hitch set-up to hyd ... it has the same 2000 series motor as yours, only its the 9.6 cu.in ....I had to play with the gearing as well, and I ran that unit with 21gpm (standard flow).... not recommended by Eaton but I ran that thing on hi-flow throttled back to about 30gpm (for hundreds of hrs with no problems) it blew snow like crazy, the fan speed was around 750-800rpm ... because it was the 2000 motor it did not have the torque to grunt thru the heavy stuff with out slowing down the ground speed ..... where the 6000 series on the new one will .... I went to the big-boy because of the wider housing and the remote control ability of the shute/tipper, purchased the truck-loading shute as well .... ALSO on the Buhler, the ability to fine tune adjust gearing with the chain driven auger and fan, where as the direct driven ones you cannot, when you suck bad things up the Motor never gets wrecked.
The adjustment module is sensative, you will have to start with the base adjusments given in the manual (available on-line infull on Buhlers site) and have to play with it, Listen to the FAN ! ...that's the trick.
I hope this will help you out to make it work efficiently ... let me know if we can help out more ....Cheers ...
Providing you actually are suppling 23gpm .... the type-1 series uses the 2000 series eaton motors (2) with a 6.2 cu.in disp. ..... the thing is you can throttle back a bit to reduce the gpm ..... but you have to know if the fan impeller is at rpm ..... maybe this will help .... (23gpm x 231) divide that by 6.2 cu.in = 857 rpm (@ 100%) but they call it drive train loss you use the figs @ 80% = 685rpm fan impeller speed .... I did alot of playing around with my 8424-4 it ran at 575rpm (@80% w/stock gearing) I changed the fan gearing from 15t x 15t, and geared it up to 20t (bottom sprocket on motor) X 15t (top sprocket-fan shaft) .... now its ~747rpm .... It'll put the dry snow out to 80' (measured it) .... but in the heavier snow it'll stall out abit easier now .... I had to play with the hyd module that adjusts the priority flow from auger to fan or visa/versa ..... But you have to know what the fan is doing ! .... yours rpm is plenty according to the hyd formulas (math) I checked mine with a hand held Stewart Warner tach (available at any auto parts place, ~$70.. money well spent)... its easy to use, the butt end of the fan shaft is exposed behind your attachment Q/A plate (you won't get bitten by the chain and sprockets, they are in behind the housing, you'll see it) ... I checked it many times and the formulas are acurate for the math calculated RPM
I have another Allied/Buhler blower that was converted from a 3 pt hitch set-up to hyd ... it has the same 2000 series motor as yours, only its the 9.6 cu.in ....I had to play with the gearing as well, and I ran that unit with 21gpm (standard flow).... not recommended by Eaton but I ran that thing on hi-flow throttled back to about 30gpm (for hundreds of hrs with no problems) it blew snow like crazy, the fan speed was around 750-800rpm ... because it was the 2000 motor it did not have the torque to grunt thru the heavy stuff with out slowing down the ground speed ..... where the 6000 series on the new one will .... I went to the big-boy because of the wider housing and the remote control ability of the shute/tipper, purchased the truck-loading shute as well .... ALSO on the Buhler, the ability to fine tune adjust gearing with the chain driven auger and fan, where as the direct driven ones you cannot, when you suck bad things up the Motor never gets wrecked.
The adjustment module is sensative, you will have to start with the base adjusments given in the manual (available on-line infull on Buhlers site) and have to play with it, Listen to the FAN ! ...that's the trick.
I hope this will help you out to make it work efficiently ... let me know if we can help out more ....Cheers ...
JGS
Active Member
Craft that is some good information you have provided. As I previously posted, I upgraded into a Buhler from an Erskine. I am not getting quite the same performance out of the Buhler as I am from the Erskine. My blower operates between 18-22 gpm. The last storm I used a friend's skid with the Buhler. His skid seamed to have a little better production. His flow rate was at 21gpm@3200psi. Mine was at 18gpm @3000psi. I would think you would see a very slight improvement if any for that reason.
Craft have you experienced the chute jumping off the rollers it rotates on? It has happened to me several times now. Once while traveling over a speed bump. The ride from a CTL can be very intense. Other times while shaking snow of the blower. As you know the chute has some weight to it.
Craft have you experienced the chute jumping off the rollers it rotates on? It has happened to me several times now. Once while traveling over a speed bump. The ride from a CTL can be very intense. Other times while shaking snow of the blower. As you know the chute has some weight to it.
CRAFT
Senior Member
YES I have but it was more to my not paying attention to the 4 roller/wheels getting loose .... they are only 1/2"bolts and lock washer with a nut .... I replaced them with a Nylock nut .... when the rollers freeze up it kinda binds, causing the nuts to back off, enough to get extra play and BINGO we have lift off ..... also make sure the base plate is not bent the wrong way out, check to see if the holes are elongated .... the base plate could get bent only if the shute was to come off when the bolts came loose before ...... deffinately a pure case of OPERATOR ABUSE ..... LOL .... I'd fire an operator that let that happen ..... what do you think ? .....LOL ....cheers
Wow, lots of good information CRAFT. This is way more informative than anything I've gotten from the dealer or Buhler itself. So are you saying that running the machine full throttle could actually hurt performance or just not improve performance? So I guess the first thing I need to do is adjust the module and figure out the rpm's. My max rpm should be 857rpm? Then depending on how that comes out I could tinker with the sprockets?
CRAFT
Senior Member
JWM : No not hurt performance, hurt the hyd motor .... The gpm of the smaller disp motors may not handle the extra gpm output of 23gpm of the skid-steer for extended periods, those 6.2 cu.in motors are rated for maybe only 20gpm max (continious duty) when you try to jam the extra gpm of the machine through the motors they rev too high, so if you throttle back a couple hundred rpm the gpm will also drop... (boy what a mouthfull).... anyways thats where the hand held tach comes into play .... the hyd formula I used is the one used to calculate rpm of the hyd motor ... so if they (eaton) say that the max gpm is 20gpm for that 2000 series motor you multiply that 20gpm by 231= 4620 (don't ask me what the 231 is for, ask a hyd engineer, its in the book) ... then you divide that number by the given disp of the motor which was 6.2cu.in = 745rpm but that is @100% (I guess that is when everything is perfect, nothing is, eg: a gas engine may have a flywheel rated hp of 300hp, but you have drive train loss of 15-20%, 45-60hp lost = 240hp at the rear wheels) ... so ... 745rpm x 80% = 596rpm actual working rpm .... again this is where the tach comes in ... I checked my BC which has 37gpm on hi-flow, the formula was bang on at WOT but as soon as the blower started to work the diesel rpm drops (maybe only 200rpm, so I ran the diesel 200rpm less than WOT and checked the fan shaft rpm (no-load) .... thats why I started to play with the gearing to get the fan to spin slightly faster with my 37gpm output .... the 6000 series motors I have are rated for a max 40-50 gpm (depends who you listen to) if you do the math for the higher gpm the fan will be spinning faster, so I played with the calculator and found that if I changed the sprocket up to the 20T it gave me the shaft rpm I was seeking ...... The diff was the casting distance of the snow... like in my case I have a contract that I push/scrape all the snow to a common point in the parking lot (too many cars, p/u's, windows, and people walking around, its a 24/7 Coffee/
donut shop) I then put the blower on and throw it up and over a conc block wall, the further I can throw it the better, gives more room for a whole winters stock-piling .... when I changed the gearing ratio it gave me an extra 15-20'.
The point I was making in the earlier post was that you can fine tune the blower to match your job needs (to a point)..... I have the Hp and torque to drive the bigger blower on my BC, but in the case of your 7422-1 and if its just for personal use, you don't have to fork out the extra coin for motors better matched to your skid .... a great deal at first can make it into a not so great deal in a hurry.
The module acts like a balancer between the fan and auger and as they say in the manual if the fan stalls turn the screw one way ... if the auger stalls too easy turn it the other way, till you have it that the auger will stall just slighty before the fan to prevent shute clogging ...... its a bit of farting around, an extra set of eyes help make it easier.
The best rpm is dictated by the torque of the hyd motor, you have the hyd flow and psi just not a higher torque hyd motor.... like trying to take an under powered truck up a hill in overdrive ... sooner or later you have to gear down ... as I also posted before the older smaller blower I have blows snow like crazy, BUT you can't overload it the hp/torque is way less than the big boy .... just gotta keep that fan spinning as fast as you can to throw effectively.... If I had to guess I'd be playing with the module.... sounds to me as if the fan is stalling out too soon .... gotta start some where.
I hope this kinda cleared up your grey areas .... I have been playing with this stuff for a few years to come up with simple answers that might work .... gotta be able to help yourself if you don't have the FAT wallet ... cheers again
donut shop) I then put the blower on and throw it up and over a conc block wall, the further I can throw it the better, gives more room for a whole winters stock-piling .... when I changed the gearing ratio it gave me an extra 15-20'.
The point I was making in the earlier post was that you can fine tune the blower to match your job needs (to a point)..... I have the Hp and torque to drive the bigger blower on my BC, but in the case of your 7422-1 and if its just for personal use, you don't have to fork out the extra coin for motors better matched to your skid .... a great deal at first can make it into a not so great deal in a hurry.
The module acts like a balancer between the fan and auger and as they say in the manual if the fan stalls turn the screw one way ... if the auger stalls too easy turn it the other way, till you have it that the auger will stall just slighty before the fan to prevent shute clogging ...... its a bit of farting around, an extra set of eyes help make it easier.
The best rpm is dictated by the torque of the hyd motor, you have the hyd flow and psi just not a higher torque hyd motor.... like trying to take an under powered truck up a hill in overdrive ... sooner or later you have to gear down ... as I also posted before the older smaller blower I have blows snow like crazy, BUT you can't overload it the hp/torque is way less than the big boy .... just gotta keep that fan spinning as fast as you can to throw effectively.... If I had to guess I'd be playing with the module.... sounds to me as if the fan is stalling out too soon .... gotta start some where.
I hope this kinda cleared up your grey areas .... I have been playing with this stuff for a few years to come up with simple answers that might work .... gotta be able to help yourself if you don't have the FAT wallet ... cheers again
Thanks CRAFT. Great info...sounds like we've got some adjustment to do. Would it be fair to say that since we've got the extra power and gpm, that maybe we could get by pretty good with the larger sprocket-as long as we run the engine rpm at a level appropriate for the motor? First we'll definitely try adjusting the module, just thinking 'down the road'.
We are actually dairy farmers and have some open cattle yards that drift and the snow adds up quickly. Before we haul all the snow out in the manure spreader-even though it is 95% snow... it just takes all day long. We want to be able to blow the snow a good 20-30 feet plus to blow it over the fence into the pasture instead of hauling it out. Thanks again for all the info, we really appreciate it. Next time the weather turns a bit warmer, we'll have to tinker with it.
We are actually dairy farmers and have some open cattle yards that drift and the snow adds up quickly. Before we haul all the snow out in the manure spreader-even though it is 95% snow... it just takes all day long. We want to be able to blow the snow a good 20-30 feet plus to blow it over the fence into the pasture instead of hauling it out. Thanks again for all the info, we really appreciate it. Next time the weather turns a bit warmer, we'll have to tinker with it.
CRAFT
Senior Member
JWM ... something was really bugging me regarding the rated max output of the 104-1062 ... 2000 series hyd motors that are on your blower.
I went back into my files and found in older literature from Buhler, that those motors should handle up to 25gpm 100% continuous duty with a min 2000psi (even though Eaton says max 19gpm). I've come across this before from the OEM of my mulcher, seem that the OEMs are always higher, and Eaton is covering their butt with lower numbers.
I you have a good hyd shop or hyd supplier that you can call and ask them for the rated specs ... it'd be interesting what they'd say.
Your machine with 23gpm and 3000psi should make that blower humm perfectly, again you should hear that fan whirrrr sound if it's up to proper rpm ... get that had held tach ... you won't regret it, if you need the SW part number i'll get it for you.
The stock gearing should put it out there at least 30-40'
Ohh BTW if you decide to play with the sprockets, the largest sprocket that'll fit in the housing is the 20T, that might be too big for the hyd hp available, the sprockets are real cheap I probably would only go up 2T larger to 17T (up here they're about $17 ea.)
Pray for snow ... LOL ... so you can go play
I went back into my files and found in older literature from Buhler, that those motors should handle up to 25gpm 100% continuous duty with a min 2000psi (even though Eaton says max 19gpm). I've come across this before from the OEM of my mulcher, seem that the OEMs are always higher, and Eaton is covering their butt with lower numbers.
I you have a good hyd shop or hyd supplier that you can call and ask them for the rated specs ... it'd be interesting what they'd say.
Your machine with 23gpm and 3000psi should make that blower humm perfectly, again you should hear that fan whirrrr sound if it's up to proper rpm ... get that had held tach ... you won't regret it, if you need the SW part number i'll get it for you.
The stock gearing should put it out there at least 30-40'
Ohh BTW if you decide to play with the sprockets, the largest sprocket that'll fit in the housing is the 20T, that might be too big for the hyd hp available, the sprockets are real cheap I probably would only go up 2T larger to 17T (up here they're about $17 ea.)
Pray for snow ... LOL ... so you can go play
fyrwood guy
Well-Known Member
howdy all, i have been watching this thread with great interest since it's beginning. i have a 1845c that i bought brand new in 1986 and use it daily in my firewood business during the summer months to load tree lenght wood on my firewood processor. i want to buy a erskine model es2010 snowblower and use it to keep my woodyard and house/chainsaw shop cleared up of snow during the winter months.my question is.....will this unit work well here at my house/business location with the current hydraulics my case 1845c has now???.... i would like to beleive the sales man,but i would like to hear/read from others-here on this forum.
Attachments
JGS
Active Member
Fyrwood guy: Before making any decisions, you need to know the gpm's and psi of your hydraulic system. It is very important to match your machine to the right blower to maximize the performance. It would be worth while giving Erskine a direct call and verifying the correct match to your machine. I have an Erskine and have done that and found them to be very knowledgeable. I have been using it on a low flow Takeuchi 130. It operates @18gpm/3000psi. I have been using it to move snow piles from the ends of parking lots. The snow is much heavier from being turned over and compacted. I have been happy with it's performance. I like the Erskine performance. But have found that the welds and housing of the blower dose not hold up well. I contribute that mostly to how I use it. As you read from previous posts I have upgraded to a Buhler blower. I find the Buhler to be built for a more commercial applications. Another consideration with your machine, you will need additional controls added to rotate and adjust the chute. They do offer a pistol grip controller option to be installed into machines that are without.
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