Should drivers who can't shift gears be allowed on the road?

[Hendrik]

Read an article the other day that indicated a trend by trucking companies of outfitting their fleets with automatic/semi-automatic gearboxes because they can find drivers who are experienced with manual gearboxes.
Now I think that gear shifting is a required skill for a truck driver and if you can't drive a crash box (or even a synchro box) you should not be driving a truck.
I have posted a poll to get an idea of what other members think.
BTW sorry if this has been discussed before, did a quick search and could not find anything.

 

[countrylife]

It's my understanding that the military's Humvees are all automatic transmissions because they can't find "kids" that can drive a standard transmission.

 

[cammo]

I don't know about the US but here in Australia there is a big move to semi/full autos to try to get women into the industry, good idea, If I can talk the beloved into it she can do the driving and I will spend my time in the bunk. What do you think my chances are?

 

[Hendrik]

I don't know about the US but here in Australia there is a big move to semi/full autos to try to get women into the industry, good idea, If I can talk the beloved into it she can do the driving and I will spend my time in the bunk. What do you think my chances are?

I don't particularly care what the gender is but ya still gotta know how to double clutch.

 

[cammo]

Fair enough. BTW I just noticed you are an Aussie so you know getting good drivers is hard. We had shocking trouble attracting and keeping good staff (Bris-Melb-Perth). Since we upgraded the trucks we seem to be able to hire more easily. To tell you the truth I don't really care if someone can drive an older beast so long as they get to where they are going safely and on-time. I like the idea of making trucks to suit drivers rather than the other way around.

 

[Hendrik]

Fair enough. BTW I just noticed you are an Aussie so you know getting good drivers is hard. We had shocking trouble attracting and keeping good staff (Bris-Melb-Perth). Since we upgraded the trucks we seem to be able to hire more easily. To tell you the truth I don't really care if someone can drive an older beast so long as they get to where they are going safely and on-time. I like the idea of making trucks to suit drivers rather than the other way around.

Yes it is an issue that people don't want to drive interstate much anymore but dumbing down the trucks is not going to solve that problem. It's more about working conditions.
I can see the advantages of an auto box in city driving but the question is if they are not smart enough to learn how to use a road ranger gearbox, are they going to be smart enough to do anything else, like changing trailers, backing up to a ramp, tying down loads, changing a tire, checking the fluids, greasing the truck, etc
I suppose that we need to keep the wheels rolling but having a bunch of half trained drivers is going to cause problems as well.

 

[Squizzy246B]

Yes it is an issue that people don't want to drive interstate much anymore but dumbing down the trucks is not going to solve that problem. It's more about working conditions.

Hendrik, as far as I can see...this thread is about Humans, Technology and Change....none of which remain motionless. I basically object to your "dumbing down" statement because I think thats a poor way to view change and new technology.

I used to drive old Whites, MAN, Atkinsons and ACCO's. I was much younger and was used to crash boxes and machines with "personality traits". Quite some skill was involved in running those old girls...and thats probably a skill that many drivers wont have these days. I can see your standing. However, when the slush box technology overhauls the manual clutch its time to get onboard with the new stuff.

I look at it this way: if its my truck with 710 Hp under the floorboards and 80 tonnes of valuable cargo on the back, with a less than top notch driver...I'll let the computer make the decisions on the hill starts.

The big disadvantage to having "auto only" drivers is when you have a mixed fleet and drivers need to be able to jump in any vehicle. Thats a pain.

My first excavation was with 4 sticks and foot pedals...I'm not complaining about joysticks now....in fact, if you wanted me to go run an old 4 stick hoe I'd tell you what you could do with your old hoe None of my operators could run a 4 stick hoe but that doesn't make them any worse on a modern excavator. Do you get where I'm coming from?

You'll also note that I said "when the slush box technology...."

Most of the experienced drivers I know don't like the autos.

 

[Steve Frazier]

It's a sign of the times, automation is becoming a way of life. I worked for a company who ran 50 tractors and over 100 trailers all with RoadRangers, I sometimes would have to just shake my head and walk away when I heard the way some of the trucks were being abused. I honestly don't know why repairs weren't at a much higher rate than they were, I can only guess it was due to our loads not being as heavy as they could have been.

The only automatic equipped heavy trucks I've driven have been fire vehicles, they have all had 5 speed Allisons. The region I live in has many many rolling hills and I'm certain I could get a truck to a scene faster if I had a RoadRanger in place of the Allison. I would bet more safely as well since the Jake seems a lot more effective on standard transmission than an automatic.

As Squizzy mentioned, the automatics are easier on the drivetrains than a standard with an inexperienced driver. The torque converter cushions a lot of the shock load that would be experienced through a clutch equipped vehicle. I've seen a lot of driveshafts spit out and pinion gears sheared by guys who don't understand shock loads.

 

[Bajak]

I agree with Steve. It's like when was the last time you operated a new dozer with steering clutches and no decelerator pedal

 

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, as far as I can see...this thread is about Humans, Technology and Change....none of which remain motionless. I basically object to your "dumbing down" statement because I think thats a poor way to view change and new technology.

Yes I suppose 'dumbing down' is an awkward term to use but my point is that instead of proper training we use technology to fill the gap.
I had to learn to use a RR box and managed to do this without too much difficulty, sure there where a few lock outs and grinds but I got there. It is not rocket science, it is a matter of understanding the relationship between engine speed, road speed and gear selection.
I guess I am just having a whinge about society 'dumbing down' in general, I am guilty of this as well by using spellcheckers and calculators instead of forcing myself to do it manually.
My ute has an auto and it is nice when driving through town.
Technology is also creeping into earthworks by using lasers to do grades and such, we may well see in the future that plant operators cannot do a job without them. Would you be happy to employ a supposedly fully trained operator who can't work without 20k worth of technology to do his/her job for them?
Would you be happy to fly in a fully automatic plane where the pilot cannot land or take off without the computer helping him/her?
I am not anti technology but I am against people losing basic skills because they don't have to push themselves to learn the basics of their trade.
Assisted gear shift technology is great is some circumstances but I maintain that if you are going to be a professional truck driver there is a basic skill set that comes with that.
Far as I am concerned technology should be there to help make us more efficient but not do the work for us to such an extent that we cannot do without it.

 

[Hendrik]

I agree with Steve. It's like when was the last time you operated a new dozer with steering clutches and no decelerator pedal

Yes but a fully experienced dozer pilot should be able to use an old D6 to do work with.

 

[Orchard Ex]

Would you be willing to pay a "fully trained driver" extra $$ to properly drive a DIY transmission v. an automated gearbox?

 

[John C.]

In the state that I live in the point is moot. You can't get a CDL without doing a driving test in a truck with a manual transmission. You have to do a perfect walk around inspection of the truck and if you miss anything required in the book you flunk. You do all this after passing the written test.

This doesn't mean we don't get idiots driving trucks. It does seem to cut down on the ones that absolutely shouldn't be driving.

 

[Hendrik]

Would you be willing to pay a "fully trained driver" extra $$ to properly drive a DIY transmission v. an automated gearbox?

I would expect a person who claims to be a pro truck driver to be able to do all the things required for the job and funnily enough this includes the ability to shift gears.
And the question still remains, if they are not smart enough to be able to get the hang of using a road ranger, are they smart enough to take your half million dollar truck across the country and back. Or is the load going to fall off half way because they can't check the load properly, or are half the tires going to be flat because they don't know how to bounce the tires.
Basically I think that the transport industry needs to implement proper training courses to fast track drivers who are equipped with the skills to do the job, which would include the ability to use all transmissions properly. Whether crash, synchro, semi-auto or fully auto.
That's what irks me, instead of addressing the issue of why there are drivers that cannot use RR properly, they take the easy route and get trucks which require less skill to operate.
I would not have got so annoyed if the reasons given for going to assisted shift technology was on the grounds of fuel efficiency, driver fatigue and safety.

 

[Hendrik]

In the state that I live in the point is moot. You can't get a CDL without doing a driving test in a truck with a manual transmission. You have to do a perfect walk around inspection of the truck and if you miss anything required in the book you flunk. You do all this after passing the written test.

This doesn't mean we don't get idiots driving trucks. It does seem to cut down on the ones that absolutely shouldn't be driving.

That's got me wondering too but I suppose they get around that by using synchromesh gearboxes to do their test. Not sure but I think over here if you do your test in a automatic truck you get an endorsement on the license that indicates that you are only allowed to drive trucks with automatics.

 

[tippatone]

IMO, automatic trucker=not a real truck driver. For all that I can drive a oversized SUV and call my self a trucker. NOPE!

 

[briannnebo]

I mean, how hard is it to learn to shift, double clutch and all. If they can't learn that, then I wouldn't want them in my stuff.

 

[dirt digger]

some guys have a lot of problems learning...I was fortunate enough to have my first pick-up as a little 5 speed which taught me the basics...but the first time I got behind the wheel of a Mack with a Lo-hole...boy, watch out...If you can't find 'em..grind 'em

I worked through that too and now consider myself pretty good at driving 8LL and halfway good at driving a 10 speed...

I think the issue here is it all comes down to training, do the companies want to spend the time and resources of hiring a new driver that has never driven, teach him to drive a standard (because you have to know that first), then teach him to drive a real tranny?...or do the companies pay a little more for a truck upfront with an auto...stick a new driver in it and don't really have to teach him..then when he quits in a year because he didn't know what he was getting himself in to hire a new guy and give him the same truck and start the process over


Personally I am with most of you on when I say to be a "good operator" you need to be able to hop in any truck/machine and go...not say you can't because you don't know how to drive it

 

[tippatone]

some guys have a lot of problems learning...I was fortunate enough to have my first pick-up as a little 5 speed which taught me the basics...but the first time I got behind the wheel of a Mack with a Lo-hole...boy, watch out...If you can't find 'em..grind 'em

I worked through that too and now consider myself pretty good at driving 8LL and halfway good at driving a 10 speed...

I think the issue here is it all comes down to training, do the companies want to spend the time and resources of hiring a new driver that has never driven, teach him to drive a standard (because you have to know that first), then teach him to drive a real tranny?...or do the companies pay a little more for a truck upfront with an auto...stick a new driver in it and don't really have to teach him..then when he quits in a year because he didn't know what he was getting himself in to hire a new guy and give him the same truck and start the process over


Personally I am with most of you on when I say to be a "good operator" you need to be able to hop in any truck/machine and go...not say you can't because you don't know how to drive it

Funny you said that, I learned how to drive standard in a 1995 honda civic and never desired to drive autos again. I have limited experience in driving a standard truck, but I feel its easy once you know where your gears are located. But that comes with getting familar with your truck. But until then hello grindsville

 

[SammyCummins]

The big fleets here in America are using the Meritor FreedomLine & the Eaton UltraShift trans "both clutchless" to atract ******* & ******** *******. Remember a warm body in the truck is better than parking the truck. I have seen smaller fleets, < 200 trucks with a good core of regular drivers make a killing on fuel mileage. So who really knows ? I'm a damned diesel mechanic... don't even drive for a living... but I had to know how to shift gears ! UP and DOWN ! Along w/ the pretrip & manuverability tests to get my CDL.