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Section for komatsu d20,21 and similar grey market dozers

John25mm

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
30
Location
Hanahan, SC/Sardis Ohio
Before I start I just want to say thanks for the info/help. I don't think I was very clear on my last reply when I asked about teeing off to run another valve. I was talking about teeing off between the pump and the OEM valves to another valve creating another circuit as it were. I realize that I couldn't use both circuits at the same time due to pressure loss. I will research what you are trying to teach/tell me. Again thanks for the info/help. i hope one day I can have the knowledge someone else needs to help them out the same way.
John
 

g_man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
321
Location
Northeastern VT
Occupation
Retired
Hopefully I am helping a little and at least pointing out some things that you should find out more about.
On a basic open center system you can only have one circuit or loop. You can have many valves but they all have to be in series. That means you cannnot put a tee at the pump output or any where else either. Think of it this way: The pump is always turning. It delivers, say, a constant 20 gpm of oil. That oil circulates around the loop thru each valve in series. If all the valves are in neutral the oil just passes thru each valve and then dumps back into the tank. It is like an open pipe. The pump does not have to generate any pressure to circulate the oil. If you activate one of the valves, to extend or retract a cylinder, inside the valve the loop gets blocked off and the oil is forced to flow into the cylinder. At the start the oil has no pressure. With the loop blocked off the pump continues its 20 gpm output and the oil pressure quickly builds until there is enough pressure to move the cylinder. As the high pressure oil flows into one end of the moving cylinder low pressure oil is pushed out the other end. This "exhaust" oil returns to the valve and is directed back to the tank thru the low pressure tank return line. The valves down stream of the actiated valve are cutoff from the pump output.
So... if you put a tee at the pump output to make two loops, oil would probably flow around both loops if all the valves were in neutral. The pump would "see" two open pipes in parrallel requiring no pressure to push oil thru. As soon as you activated a valve in one of the loops that loop will, in essance, get blocked off because the flow gets directed to a cylinder which requires pressure to move. The oil will just simply stop flowing in that loop. It will all flow thru the other loop which still looks like an open pipe. The pump will "see" one blocked pipe and one open pipe.
 

John25mm

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
30
Location
Hanahan, SC/Sardis Ohio
Okay, now that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation to the slow members of the audience. Like I said hydraulics isn’t one of my strong points, well at least not yet. Now I have something else to think about and plan. I think I am probably going to go the diverter route. My problem now is I need to look at the D20s hydraulic circuits to see which circuit controller to use. It will probably be the blade control circuit due to it having enough ports to control 2 double acting cylinders. I wonder if I can get a pair of diverters (or one diverter if it is a 2 port one) that are electrical to keep from cluttering up the work area. Crazy thing is I am 6’4” and a little over 250# and I HATE banging either my elbows or knees into things and they seem to always find hard pointy things:Banghead. Kind of like my brother in law saying his backhoe is a large orange wire finder.
 

g_man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
321
Location
Northeastern VT
Occupation
Retired
They have selonoid actuated diverters just for that. You have probably seem hydraulic control handles with buttons on them. Often the buttons are electrical switches which control selonoid diverter valves. For example, there are many tractors with grapples on the bucket. If you dont push the button pushing forward or pulling back on the control handle dumps or curls the bucket. If you push the button the diverter switches and now pushing forward or pulling back on the control handle opens and closes the grapple.
Good luck
 

John25mm

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
30
Location
Hanahan, SC/Sardis Ohio
Good now I get to figure out how to spend more money. I might test these diverters on my Kubota L5450 due to all of the hydrauils being out where you can see/get to them and I want some graples or a 4 way bucket for it.
 

g_man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
321
Location
Northeastern VT
Occupation
Retired
There is always something interesting and useful to do. I have a Farmi logging winch on my tractor that I would love to be able to put on my 70 hp Dresser TD7G dozer. At this stage I am trying to figure out a reasonable way that I can get a tractor type pto shaft that turns about 200 or 300 rpm at idle sticking out of the back of the dozer. If anyone has any words of wisdom, advise, or any info at all on that I would love to hear it.
 

John25mm

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
30
Location
Hanahan, SC/Sardis Ohio
I hear you about always having somehting to do. I am planning on putting an electric winch on the back of mine between the uprights for the the ROPS. If I come across any ideas on your issue I will contact you.
 

joemorgan

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
23
Location
Groesbeck, Texas
Occupation
Retired
the hyd. filter for a D20A-5 and D21A-5 is Fram c4651, it replaces komatsu KMTS 130-60-48210 hyd filter, I don't know if it fits any other machines or not, I have a D20A-6 but I haven't bought one yet, I don't know if they are the same or not, can anyone tell me the komatsu filter number?
 
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RRRancher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Henderson, Texas
Occupation
Retired
Joe, I'm not sure why, but there are three cartridge numbers listed for both the angle dozer and the power angle, power tilt dozer on the D20A-6 parts page at the KomatsuPartsBook.com website. They show part numbers 113-60-43321, 113-60-43320, and 113-60-23240. I didn't find any cross references for any of these at either Fram or Wix.
 
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Gijs

New Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Oregon
newly registered but i have been lurking for a while. lots of good info on here. I am restoring an old i think late 70's Komatsu D31a-16 with a winch. I picked it up for less than scrap price. Has the full rops and protective plating. Can anyone tell me where I can get used parts for it? Also curious if anyone is familiar with this machine and can maybe tell how it compares size wise to other machines? Once i get it fixed I plan to do some logging and then lots and lots of land clearing.
 

g_man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
321
Location
Northeastern VT
Occupation
Retired
Gijs, Sounds like an interesting project.
If you mean D31-16 (w/o the "a") which were around in late 70's I have seen them listed as 63 hp and 15.500 lbs. (The weight seems like it might be high to me, but maybe includes a winch ??) So it would be similar to a JD 450C I think.
 
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rdoiron

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
10
Location
Kemptville, Ontario
Occupation
Telecom project manager
New member, long term lurker...I'm deciding between a late 90's D21A with cab or late 90's D21P without cab. Both roughly the same shape and price. I'm a little concerned about ground pressure but that cab sure would be nice. Sometimes I'll be operating in a field that was reclaimed from beavers and the ground can be a bit soft. If I can drive my 5k lb utility 4 wheel drive tractor ok on the field would the D21A have any issues? I don't know how to quantify the 5psi vs 3.75 psi ground pressures.
 

g_man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
321
Location
Northeastern VT
Occupation
Retired
rdoiron, I have a 4WD Kabota tractor with a logging winch on it that also weighs 5000 lbs. My TD7G dozer has 15" pads and 6.5 psi ground pressure. I operate both in the woods and I have alot of wet ground so I have to be careful. In soft going the tractor will get mired in places the dozer has no problem. They both have about the same ground clearance. That is not to say that the doser won't make a depression, because it does, but it doesn't sink like the tractor does. If I can, I test an unknown area with the tractor which is easier to rescue than the dozer. I have never had trouble running the dozer where the tractor could go. I have only been running the dozer for a year so there is a lot I don't know. But so far this has been my experience.
I have been told the ground pressure on the tractor is equal to the tire pressure.
 
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rdoiron

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
10
Location
Kemptville, Ontario
Occupation
Telecom project manager
Thanks g_man
That's what I figured. If the tractor is ok, the dozer will be fine. Do you enjoy your TD7G? I used to work on them in the mid 70's when I worked for IH. I found the wet clutches to be very trouble free. We used to take a TD8 and cut down the blade for landscaping. Sold lots of them because they could fit between houses but still had lots of power.

Worked a lot on Hough wheel loaders as well.

I made an offer for the D21A with the cab...
 

g_man

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
321
Location
Northeastern VT
Occupation
Retired
I like it alot. Still just learning. Since I log with a tractor my skid roads have to be half way decent. I was realy excited when I found out the TD7G had no trouble digging up and moving rocks like this. I have alot of very rough trails left over from other loggers who had big skidders. Many I couldn't use until I got the dozer. Now I can smooth them out.
 

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the rock

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
7
Location
ireland
Hi

I am looking for a bit of help with an old D21 dozer i have. It drives forward and back no problem but i can not get it to steer left or right. when you pull the lever hard enough it will brake but will not put in the hydraulic clutch to stop the drive so it can steer. The machine has been lying up for a few years and this is sort of a restoration project. I would be helpfull if any of you could tell me how the steering system works and how i could narrow down the problem.
 

RRRancher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
113
Location
Henderson, Texas
Occupation
Retired
The Rock, I don't know if you are having the same problem as I was, but it is something to eliminate anyway. Go back and read my post # 1507 and subsequent posts on that thread to see what I found out. If that doesn't do the trick, let us know and we can suggest other things to try.

RRR
 

rdoiron

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
10
Location
Kemptville, Ontario
Occupation
Telecom project manager
Well my (new to me) D21-7 (1998) arrived this morning at 05:00 AM in total darkness. It was to arrive last night but the float was delayed. Runs nice, 1700 hours on the meter, mostly original paint and quite tight. One hose from the directional joystick needs to be replaced but other than that no leaks.

Bring on the projects!

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