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New to me D8K, operation, maintenance, adjustments

Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
6
Location
West Central Alberta
I bought a D8K for use on the farm. No operators manual of course, so still figuring things out.

The temperature gauge has three overlapping bands, green, blue and yellow, all ending in red at the top end. I'm assuming the different colors represent different operating conditions? Fan forward vs reverse? Winter vs Summer? It does run much hotter with the fan pushing forward, even on a cold November day.

Are there internal adjustments on the brakes, ( or clutches), or just the external linkages? This has the combined clutch and brakes on the levers. Which work fine, but brakes seem to be at the end of the stroke on the levers, and the left foot brake doesn't function at all. Any specific instructions for free play when adjusting them?

What is the difference between Cat's Transmission Drive Train Oil, and the transmission hydraulic oils for tractors? Would any other oil not be compatible with the clutch linings, or not have enough EP additives? The TDTO oil ended up being hard to source locally, more expensive, and I already keep trans hydraulic on hand.

By serial number, this is supposed to be a spacer plate engine, any way to confirm that visually? And do they require any special pampering to avoid the known issues?

When shifting the powershift under load, it nearly comes to a stop before shifting, which can't be good for the powertrain. Is that normal, or are there accumulators that could need attention, or pressure needing checked? I mostly avoid shifting it under load, instead decellerating and changing the gear, letting the torque converter take the abuse instead. Are they intended to be like any other powershift, and designed to shift all day long under full load?

It will coast on with the decellerator fully depressed, does that indicate it is idling too high, or is that typical?

I can't access a parts book, but if i understood a previous thread correctly, does this have chain drive instead of gears in the final drives? My neighbor who is an Cat skinner from way back, but only ran 6's and 7's from the same era, thinks that the final drives are noisy/whiny compared to what he remembers. Nothing untoward in the oils, both sides make the same sound, don't really notice it from the seat. We have an old tractor with chain drive rear end, and it sounds much the same.

Lots more questions, but that is more than enough for one post.
 

wornout wrench

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
740
Location
canada
Hi Farmer.

First thing you need to do is include the serial number of the machine.

There are a couple of guys on here that have lots of experience and can access the cat SIS and pull information for you.

But they need that number.
 

Nige

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
29,380
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Operation & Maintenance Manual (covering all basic servicing) should be your first priority. Less than US$50 to download from Cat.
As WW pointed out before, need a Serial Number to identify the correct one. Also in your case it might be a good idea to post the engine Serial number as well.

For powertrain (trans & finals) you will need an oil that meets Cat TO-4 (TDTO) spec. Trans would typically be SAE30 and finals SAE50. Accept no substitutes ..........
 

Check Break

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
469
Location
USA
Fan forward vs reverse? Winter vs Summer? It does run much hotter with the fan pushing forward, even on a cold November day. That sounds odd to me. It shouldn't run "much hotter" in either direction.

Are there internal adjustments on the brakes, or just the external linkages? As suggested, get a shop manual on ebay and follow the brake adjustment procedure. Each band has an adjustment at the back top of the bevel gear compartment. This has the combined clutch and brakes on the levers. Which work fine, but brakes seem to be at the end of the stroke on the levers, and the left foot brake doesn't function at all. Any specific instructions for free play when adjusting them? The turning levers control both the brakes and the steering clutches on all K-s. You can disconnect the brakes if you want the controls to work like an H. If the linkage is hooked up, then the problem with your left brake is in the brake cover or below in the band or drum. Follow the manual for adjustment advice.

What is the difference between Cat's Transmission Drive Train Oil, and the transmission hydraulic oils for tractors? The TDTO oil ended up being hard to source locally, more expensive, and I already keep trans hydraulic on hand. We used to use 30W engine oil in the transmissions, but that oil is no longer the same today. Best use a 30W transmission oil as suggested. Ask your local oil distributor who distributes a name brand oil for a TDTO substitute. Don't use one that's a "recommended" replacement. Use one that "meets or exceeds" Cat TDTO.

By serial number, this is supposed to be a spacer plate engine, any way to confirm that visually? And do they require any special pampering to avoid the known issues? Take a look at the side of the engine block. If you see a 1/2" plate between the head and the block, you have a spacer plate.

When shifting the powershift under load, it nearly comes to a stop before shifting, which can't be good for the powertrain. Is that normal, or are there accumulators that could need attention, or pressure needing checked? I mostly avoid shifting it under load, instead decellerating and changing the gear, letting the torque converter take the abuse instead. Are they intended to be like any other powershift, and designed to shift all day long under full load? Sounds odd. Just run it in the same gear when under load, decelerating to shift between F and R. Did you pull your transmission filters and cut them open to see what's in them. Did you pull the screens.

It will coast on with the decellerator fully depressed, does that indicate it is idling too high, or is that typical? Not sure what you mean by coast. If your're coasting, you're not in gear so yes it may move. If you meant you were in gear and didn't come to a stop when your decelerator was pushed through the floor, then that's not normal unless your blade is up and you're facing downhill.

I can't access a parts book, but if i understood a previous thread correctly, does this have chain drive instead of gears in the final drives? Gear drive. My neighbor ... thinks the final drives are noisy/whiny compared to what he remembers. Nothing untoward in the oils, both sides make the same sound, don't really notice it from the seat. We have an old tractor with chain drive rear end, and it sounds much the same. Did you pull the filters and cut them open. No chunks when you drained the finals is a good thing. I hope you put a quality 50W back in. The filters are up on top and can be removed/replaced after an oil change. What you really need to know is whether the your oil pumps in the finals are working.

Not sure of your serial number. Here's two cheap parts manuals in good condition. One of them matches your serial number.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT-Caterp...:cYgAAOSwxr1drhfc:sc:USPSPriority!95021!US!-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT-Caterp...:~6gAAOSwg8hdrg9D:sc:USPSPriority!95021!US!-1

There's good shop manuals on ebay also ranging from $70 to $200. You should be able to find one for around $100.
 

farmerlund

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
1,237
Location
North Dakota
Occupation
Farmer/ excavator
The water temp gauge has different ranges that go along with the water pressure gauge. most of the pressure gauges have been removed or are inoperable. if you have the pressure gauge, you will notice the colors match up with the temp.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
6
Location
West Central Alberta
Machine SN is 77V14093. Which is supposed to be a 1980, and well past the SN break for spacer plate engine. But I don't see any spacer plate from the side of this engine. Didn't check engine SN yet.

Thanks Farmerlund, that would make sense, and no, there is no water pressure gauge. Only a fuel pressure gauge, and I'm not certain what I am supposed to do with that information either, just for monitoring fuel filter?
 

Check Break

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
469
Location
USA
Machine SN is 77V14093. Which is supposed to be a 1980, and well past the SN break for spacer plate engine. But I don't see any spacer plate from the side of this engine. Didn't check engine SN yet.

Engines got swapped all the time to cut down on rebuild time. You may have an early engine. Your parts book will tell you what you have from the block casting number.
 

Manu

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
34
Location
British Columbia
If the engine is overheating..check fan belt tension and blades that they are angled the same. Is the radiator plugged externally..or internally?...like at engine oil cooler..are you losing coolant..check radiator relief and cap gasket. The steering clutches and brakes: adjust brakes tight and back off 8 clicks..if it doesn't steer after that..that clutch is not releasing. It might require assessment by a dealer field mechanic from Finning. Best of luck.
 

Manu

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
34
Location
British Columbia
The transmission will use SAE30 oil that meets TO4 spec..but the final drives use gear oil like 85/90. Each final drive has a filter that needs to be checked as does the magnet/screen and filter for the transmission. The drain plugs magnets for those compartments need to be checked as well.
 

Nige

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
29,380
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Today TO-4 would generally be used in both transmission and final drives. The only thing that changes is the viscosity. Although thinking about it for the OP's climate he could probably get away with SAE30 in both the transmission and the final drives.

See below, extracted from the O&M Manual. "LO" in the table would be an engine service classification or TO-2.
upload_2019-12-9_5-51-1.png
upload_2019-12-9_5-54-10.png
 
Last edited:

Manu

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
34
Location
British Columbia
New dozers nowadays would use TO4 oils in final drives that are planetary types but older ones with heavy spur gears would likely be better protected with heavier grades of oil. In Alberta where temperatures in winter can approach -40F it might be advisable to change oils to lighter grades if working under more severe operating conditions like land clearing or road building rather than plowing snow.
 

Manu

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
34
Location
British Columbia
The big difference of a D8k to newer D8s is that the D8K and older ones final drive compartments have their own oil and lubrication system and are separate from the bevel gear case which is shares the oil of the transmission. The other huge difference is track frame is attached to the structure of the final drive compartment which contains what is commonly referred to as the dead axle. The bull gear rotates on that axle the hub to which the track sprocket is pressed on.That hub is supported on the end through bearings which support the hub to which the track frame is attached to.
On newer dozers the track frames are attached to the frame with a pivot shaft which supports the weight of the upper structure of the machine. The final drives are attached to the upper structure and thus are referred to as high drives.
This has a few advantages in that repair of final drives and steering clutches is much simpler and wear of sprocket is less as it is out of the dirt.
The problem of the older dozers is that a D8K that with a ripper weighs over 50 tons and if it is dozing at full power and the blade hits a boulder or 4 foot fir tree stump and can bend a dead axle. This and wear of the bearings on the bull gear hub can cause angular misalignment of bull gear teeth and pinion which will break off teeth. I have had the pleasure of having to do close to 50 for that reason. Also steering clutches and brakes are pretty challenging especially when its minus 30 Fahrenheit and owner wants to do it in the field.
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,870
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
D8K and H models called for 50 wt. engine oil and not gear oil. As I recall an 8K weighed in at around 80,000 with 4 barrel multi-shank ripper with two shanks installed and a U blade with full fluids. I've never seen a bent dead axle on an D8. I have seen them on D9G and H machines. It was attributed more to final drive failures than anything else.
 

Manu

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
34
Location
British Columbia
Where I worked all D8 final drives had gear oil and failures were not attributed to the oil but likely lack of if due to sprocket seal failure.Chicken before the egg? I only recall SAE50 only came out for planetary final drives on loaders, high drives and haul trucks about 25 years ago which was nice because it didn't have that awful smell.
As far as dead axle bending I would suspect that it would be momentary and contribute to bull gear failure. About weight..I find it hard to believe a D8K with U blade, cab, stump/rock guarding, rock guards, extreme service undercarriage and 4 barrel being less than 50 tons. Maybe in Mexico where they have no cab and have worn out undercarriage.
 
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