tonka
Senior Member
looks like he took the pin out to fix that mess of hoses, and for the rubber strap use a piece of old tire...
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
New Case 580 Super E project!
- Thread starter sporklift
- Start date
sporklift
Well-Known Member
Scott, sharp eye! Tonka, you're right, the previous owner removed (and lost apparently) the pin while fixing hoses. Some of the short hard lines have been lost also.
I can see the lock fits in the obvious spot, but I'm not actually sure what the rubber strap is supposed to look like, or how it works exactly. Also missing are ALL the hose clamps, so I will have to improvise something to control the hose routing. I suspect they're expensive from Case direct.
My mobile repair guy also makes custom hoses on-site in his van. I'll probably go ahead and replace all the lines with metal showing - which is all of them in the backhoe! Since the middle hard lines going to the bucket cylinder are bent up, I was considering removing them altogether and replacing each assembly (two flexible hoses and one hard line) with just one flexible hose. I don't have a feel for how this might (or might not) affect performance, but the thought of a few less connections to leak is appealing. Also, I can guess the cost of the hoses will be somewhat proportional to how many ends I need, not just the total length of hose. Comments on the wisdom of doing this are welcome!
The weather forecast is looking sunny.. and I still plan to have it done by Friday.
I can see the lock fits in the obvious spot, but I'm not actually sure what the rubber strap is supposed to look like, or how it works exactly. Also missing are ALL the hose clamps, so I will have to improvise something to control the hose routing. I suspect they're expensive from Case direct.
My mobile repair guy also makes custom hoses on-site in his van. I'll probably go ahead and replace all the lines with metal showing - which is all of them in the backhoe! Since the middle hard lines going to the bucket cylinder are bent up, I was considering removing them altogether and replacing each assembly (two flexible hoses and one hard line) with just one flexible hose. I don't have a feel for how this might (or might not) affect performance, but the thought of a few less connections to leak is appealing. Also, I can guess the cost of the hoses will be somewhat proportional to how many ends I need, not just the total length of hose. Comments on the wisdom of doing this are welcome!
The weather forecast is looking sunny.. and I still plan to have it done by Friday.
sporklift
Well-Known Member
Trouble!
Bad news. One of my boom cylinders is shot - the tube is dented and has been wearing away at the piston. So in addition to a rebuild, I also need a replacement tube and piston. (!)
Question: Is anyone willing to sell me a spare? Or can you recommend a good (affordable) source for new/used parts?
I'm really bummed out. Man, I was looking forward to having it back together this weekend.
Bad news. One of my boom cylinders is shot - the tube is dented and has been wearing away at the piston. So in addition to a rebuild, I also need a replacement tube and piston. (!)
Question: Is anyone willing to sell me a spare? Or can you recommend a good (affordable) source for new/used parts?
I'm really bummed out. Man, I was looking forward to having it back together this weekend.
sporklift
Well-Known Member
Aftermarket parts
After some checking, I've found a number of places I can buy aftermarket parts. Even the Case dealership offered me aftermarket parts when I balked at the $1200 for a new cylinder.
Looks like I'll be able to get a new tube and piston for about $500.
After some checking, I've found a number of places I can buy aftermarket parts. Even the Case dealership offered me aftermarket parts when I balked at the $1200 for a new cylinder.
Looks like I'll be able to get a new tube and piston for about $500.
ScottAR
Senior Member
Equipment parts source is who I've used before. Everything happened like it was supposed to.
Broken tractor.com has similar pricing although I've not ordered from there yet.
Broken tractor.com has similar pricing although I've not ordered from there yet.
sporklift
Well-Known Member
New parts are on order and I anticipate we'll have them back by Friday!
My mobile service mechanic can make hoses to order on site, so ALL of the backhoe hoses will be replaced! While I wait for the new parts, I am removing the hoses to make them easy to measure out. Some have come off easily, but I'm having trouble with one of the hoses.
It seems there was not much room designed-in to allow wrench access at the spools. The hose nut is 1.25", and my wrench really won't fit in there. After removing the sheet metal and popping open the fiberglass hood (the one the control levers go through), I can get my wrench on one or two of the hoses, but most are impossible from that angle.
How do you guys do it? I'm thinking of getting some stubby wrenches, although it seems they would not allow enough leverage.
My mobile service mechanic can make hoses to order on site, so ALL of the backhoe hoses will be replaced! While I wait for the new parts, I am removing the hoses to make them easy to measure out. Some have come off easily, but I'm having trouble with one of the hoses.
It seems there was not much room designed-in to allow wrench access at the spools. The hose nut is 1.25", and my wrench really won't fit in there. After removing the sheet metal and popping open the fiberglass hood (the one the control levers go through), I can get my wrench on one or two of the hoses, but most are impossible from that angle.
How do you guys do it? I'm thinking of getting some stubby wrenches, although it seems they would not allow enough leverage.
ScottAR
Senior Member
I've used a set of crowfoot wrenches on a ratchet/extension with some success although my set stops at 7/8" I think. You may find taking off one gives access to the next. I'll look at my D tomorrow to shake out some ideas.
Phil
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2005
- Messages
- 1,067
- Location
- Southeastern Ontario
- Occupation
- retired operator and mechanic
Bent boom cylinders are not uncommon. I understand that Case lists a beefy crowsfoot wrench on CNH. It's the only one I would buy, after getting one from Snap-on that just won't do it. Let us know how you make out with that. Phil
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Phil is right about the crowsfoot wrenches from CNH. That is where I bought mine (3 of them). They are made by OTC Tools. They are extremely tough. Be prepared to pay dearly for them. The 1 1/4" was $55.00 plus tax. They are worth the high cost though because I don't think you will ever round off the hex on a fitting with one them.
sporklift
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the feedback guys!
I checked out the CNH website... do you need special permission to buy tools there? A link to where I can buy would be greatly appreciated!
Alternatively, I was thinking of cutting up an old 1.25" 6-point socket and welding an extension onto it.... sort of like an O2 sensor wrench on a car. Actually, I made such a tool for an 02 Sensor last year.
I checked out the CNH website... do you need special permission to buy tools there? A link to where I can buy would be greatly appreciated!
Alternatively, I was thinking of cutting up an old 1.25" 6-point socket and welding an extension onto it.... sort of like an O2 sensor wrench on a car. Actually, I made such a tool for an 02 Sensor last year.
sporklift
Well-Known Member
Custom Tool
So I built a custom Crows-foot tool by cannibalizing a 1.25" impact socket.
Good news is that it fits over the hoses and physically fits into the tight area where the hoses connect with the spools. I even have room to get my breaker bar in there.
The bad news - the trouble hose (top left hose) is STILL too tight to get off. I don't know why it's so tight. So far, all the other connections have been reasonable, but I'm applying a lot of force trying to undo it. Unless it's a left-hand thread (?). In fact, the force was enough to pry open the socket-end of my tool. I had to bend it back in a vise and add gussets!
Any ideas?
So I built a custom Crows-foot tool by cannibalizing a 1.25" impact socket.
Good news is that it fits over the hoses and physically fits into the tight area where the hoses connect with the spools. I even have room to get my breaker bar in there.
The bad news - the trouble hose (top left hose) is STILL too tight to get off. I don't know why it's so tight. So far, all the other connections have been reasonable, but I'm applying a lot of force trying to undo it. Unless it's a left-hand thread (?). In fact, the force was enough to pry open the socket-end of my tool. I had to bend it back in a vise and add gussets!
Any ideas?
Attachments
willie59
Administrator
sporklift, I realise it's tight space in there, not much room to work, but if you can hit on the hex ends of those JIC hose fittings with a hammer, even if you have to use a drift punch and hammer and hit on the points of the hex like your trying to unscrew them, then they'll come loose with little effort from your handy crowfoot wrench. It works really well if you can bang on the flats of the hex fittings, don't think you have room to do that though. Nothing in there is left hand thread. 
sporklift
Well-Known Member
Thanks ATCO! I'll try your trick... I think I can get (or make) a punch long enough to reach. It's good to know there's no left hand threads.
willie59
Administrator
You will find this method very effective getting fittings loose all over your machine, especially the large fittings. JIC fittings are very friendly to work with. For fittings out in the open, no sense struggling with wrenches trying to pop a fitting loose, simply hit on the flats of the hex on the fitting with a hammer, a couple of good whacks on 2 or three of the flats, and they'll come loose with very little effort.
sporklift
Well-Known Member
I've got all but two connections off - one on the bucket cylinder and one on the spools (connection to rod end of the dipper cylinder).
And those two have been a bear to get loose. I whacked at them with a hammer (couldn't get much of a swing) and tapped using a brass punch, but it's just not budging. Has anyone used a solvent that can be sprayed that might free up the threads?
And those two have been a bear to get loose. I whacked at them with a hammer (couldn't get much of a swing) and tapped using a brass punch, but it's just not budging. Has anyone used a solvent that can be sprayed that might free up the threads?
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Atco's method is a sure thing. But,when all else fails try tightening the fitting and then loosening it. Try it several times. Don't go crazy on the tightening though. I know it sounds like a dumb thing to do but it has worked many times for me.
sporklift
Well-Known Member
Slow progress.
This single difficult fitting has delayed my backhoe restoration by 2 weeks! Conventional wrenches failed to work on this stuck fitting, even after removing some of the body panels for better access. Next, I tried chopping up an impact socket and welding up my own IEW (Improvised Equipment Wrench) - which broke.
I bought a set of pump (farmer) wrenches with short handles which fit into the available space, but I could not get enough leverage.
At about this point, my assistant mechanic (my son!) suggested I cut through the hydraulic hose and use a regular deep socket. But that would introduce grinding dust and metal swarf into the hydraulic line, perhaps even into the spool!
Nothing seemed to be working, so I resorted to ordering a set of heavy duty crow-foot wrenches. If my custom-welded tool had been strong enough, surely, it would have worked, I thought.
A week later, I received my new crow-foot wrenches, and despite using an 18" breaker bar, I still could not budge it! On closer inspection, the crowfoot wrench ends up hitting the threads on the next spool. Maybe the tool sold by Case is shaped differently.
Finally, down to the last resort, I decided to take my son's advice and cut through the hose. This gave me access to put a deep socket on it. I estimate it was about 200 ft-lb to break it free. For reference, the head bolts on my Ford V8 are 130 ft-lbs.
I put a video up on YouTube of the cutting action. This video will make you cringe, but we got the job done.
YouTube - Removing a Stubborn Hydraulic Fitting.
What you don't see on the video is how I purged the hydraulic fluid (to clean away swarf) without turning the machine on. I stuck a very large shop vac over the port and pulled the spool lever, which sucked hydraulic fluid out of the port. This would have happened anyway when I started the machine after everything was put back together. But by using the vacuum, the abrasive swarf ended up in the shop vac, instead of my newly rebuilt cylinders.
The vacuum trick seemed to work pretty slick, so maybe it will help someone else in a similar situation.
This single difficult fitting has delayed my backhoe restoration by 2 weeks! Conventional wrenches failed to work on this stuck fitting, even after removing some of the body panels for better access. Next, I tried chopping up an impact socket and welding up my own IEW (Improvised Equipment Wrench) - which broke.
I bought a set of pump (farmer) wrenches with short handles which fit into the available space, but I could not get enough leverage.
At about this point, my assistant mechanic (my son!) suggested I cut through the hydraulic hose and use a regular deep socket. But that would introduce grinding dust and metal swarf into the hydraulic line, perhaps even into the spool!
Nothing seemed to be working, so I resorted to ordering a set of heavy duty crow-foot wrenches. If my custom-welded tool had been strong enough, surely, it would have worked, I thought.
A week later, I received my new crow-foot wrenches, and despite using an 18" breaker bar, I still could not budge it! On closer inspection, the crowfoot wrench ends up hitting the threads on the next spool. Maybe the tool sold by Case is shaped differently.
Finally, down to the last resort, I decided to take my son's advice and cut through the hose. This gave me access to put a deep socket on it. I estimate it was about 200 ft-lb to break it free. For reference, the head bolts on my Ford V8 are 130 ft-lbs.
I put a video up on YouTube of the cutting action. This video will make you cringe, but we got the job done.
YouTube - Removing a Stubborn Hydraulic Fitting.
What you don't see on the video is how I purged the hydraulic fluid (to clean away swarf) without turning the machine on. I stuck a very large shop vac over the port and pulled the spool lever, which sucked hydraulic fluid out of the port. This would have happened anyway when I started the machine after everything was put back together. But by using the vacuum, the abrasive swarf ended up in the shop vac, instead of my newly rebuilt cylinders.
The vacuum trick seemed to work pretty slick, so maybe it will help someone else in a similar situation.
ScottAR
Senior Member
Sounds like you need an Atco ultra trick suck bucket...
Job Well Done btw...
Job Well Done btw...
sporklift
Well-Known Member
Thanks Scott, I think I've got an extra bucket around here that I can try ATCO's technique. It wouldn't hurt to give it a second purging. The fluid won't be wasted - I'm replacing all the hydraulic fluid and filter when the rebuilt cylinders go on anyway.
I scheduled the next visit by my mechanic (who has turned out to be a fantastic find, by the way!). In the meantime, I decided to replace a missing hose bracket... by casting it out of aluminum. Check it out:
YouTube - Foundry Making a Part for my Case 580 SE (Part 1)
YouTube - Foundry Making a Part for my Case 580 SE (Part 2)
I scheduled the next visit by my mechanic (who has turned out to be a fantastic find, by the way!). In the meantime, I decided to replace a missing hose bracket... by casting it out of aluminum. Check it out:
YouTube - Foundry Making a Part for my Case 580 SE (Part 1)
YouTube - Foundry Making a Part for my Case 580 SE (Part 2)
willie59
Administrator
Oh yeah, definitely a place to use the suck bucket.
I'm gonna have to start a thread about that trick Scott so that we can easily direct folks to it. :yup
Great job on casting the part sporklift.