Loaders, Limbers and Roadbuilders.

[JTL]

Whose machine Jason?? Tim Brown??

Yes it is. Tim is crushing the rock for the job I'm on. Went over to his place last Friday to give him the final quanities that I need to finish the job. Got to BSing and asked if he would mind if I went up there and had a look around.

 

[SPMiller]

345C L rolled over 9,200 hours the other night. Fully guarded, lexan glass etc.

 

[SPMiller]

So Are bunchers allowed in this thread, they pop up here and there, but aren't technically under the criteria. Should they get a seperate thread?

 

[Pacifica]

Who makes the best log loader?
Cat?
John deere?
Hitachi?
Komatsu?
Volvo?
Link belt?
Other?

 

[Redwood Climber]

WOW!! What a question..........

Who makes the best log loader?
Cat?
John deere?
Hitachi?
Komatsu?
Volvo?
Link belt?
Other?

You are opening a huge can of worms........welcome to the forum!

There are nearly as many answers to that question as there are loader operators and owners.

Operators like power and speed, they like visibility, they like hoses that don't hang out there waiting for the first limb or stob to rip them off.

They like tough tinware, ease of operator maintenance, a tough machine that can hold up to some abuse, easy to read gauges, and easy to use horn. Room in the cab is nice, a good spot (easy to get to) to heat up lunch on winter mornings, high clearance between tracks and loader (don't worry as much about squishing that green chaser)........

Owners like PRICE!!! RELIABILITY!! How about parts availability? Real hard to beat CAT for that........How about the cost of parts? Owners like to know that when they break down.........and if you keep it long enough they all do, how soon can we get her going, and how much is it going to cost.

So to answer that question, there are so many variable, size of machine needed, are you going to be constantly moving? Shovel logging vs parked under a yarder, for shovel logging you want lots of swing torque, reach, tractive pull, generally a larger machine,.......and the list goes on and on........

Wow, what a question...........the kind I like, blunt to the point, no beating around the bush......you are going to get a ton of responses on this one I would guess.............

 

[jr-transport]

Koehring! The K4L and its sucessor the 440. massive go-everywhere machines. Unfortunately they are now relegated to boneyards and scrap heaps...

 

[John C.]

All the loggers are some type of modified excavator with a logging front derived from those originally built by Pierce and Young corporations.

There isn't much difference between any of them anymore. They all move logs, eat fuel, break down and need grease. The best one doesn't depend on manufacturer anymore. It depends on the man in the seat and the person paying the bills.

 

[Contract Logger]

I dont believe there is a best shovel at all, but rather the best shovel for the application, whatever that is. Any machine will sit under the yarder and load- they did it with line machines (Bucyrus, P&H, Manitowoc, Link-Belt, etc), then old hydraulics- Prentice D600's and Husky XL-300's, etc. Slow but capable nonetheless.

For flat-out shovel-logging the Thunderbirds and Madills couldn't be beat. The TB 942's, 1242's, and Madill 3800C's just flat-out smoked eveything in thier classes with huge raw horsepower and giant pump-flow. The downfall is they burn insane fuel and need lots of attention mechanically due to the horsepower and flow. Between breakdowns however, you will get more logs than everybody else is with thier Link-Belts and Hitachis. Can you afford those logs? That's up to you.

The playing field today I think is basically pretty even- Cat, Komatsu, Deere/Hitachi, Link-Belt are all decent machines that will give you good service for 10,000 hours.

There are still the price-point machines out there too- Kobelco, Doosan, Volvo, etc and from what I've seen they work fine but you wait longer for parts and you get a little less resale for them. I dont know if it was really fair to put Kobelco in this category anymore- they've come a long way and the Link-Belt/Kobelco are very close in terms of price and durability. I dont think Volvo is ther yet with durability- the machines I've been around were terrible. Lots of technology (too much?) and not enough iron.

Here's the real truth however: The Feds have thier boot on the throat of industry in this country and right now your log loader manufacturers aren't worried about you getting any logs. They're worried about how the heck they will meet all the ridiculous emissions standards coming down the pike. You're an innocent bystander who is about to start suffering the consequences of this nonsense. Machinery prices are going through the sky and machine reliability is about to go down.

I'll close with this: The best log loader didn't have to worry about meeting any emissions standards!

And John C is spot-on: A lousy/careless operator will destroy the best log loader, whatever you decide that machine is.

 

[Contract Logger]

Sorry about the above rant- I fee the comming emmissions standards are the biggest hurdle loggers will face over the next 10 years. Especially those working remote (BC Coast, Alaska, etc), who will really suffer trying to figure out all the issues associated with this. Things are going to get ugly with these new machines. Cat's already having significant problems with the engines in thier newer loggers. Everyone else is close behind......

 

[dirty4fun]

Very well put C L, and yes the government controls are tough. Going to be alot of extra cost and just more regulations to try to keep up with. They have gotten much of the emmissions in the farm realted equipment for now meeting the government standards. It is going to be tough to keep all this equipment running when it gets some age on it, with all the added computer controlled items.

I think I read where one volcano eruption puts more green house gas into the air than all the vehicles have ever have produced.

One thing we don't need is more regulations from so many people that can't even come close to taking care of themselves.

 

[dblott]

Your exactly right CL! Your "rant" needed to be said. There's so much more out there being shoved at us. Makes alot of sense to increase exhaust temps to "clean" exhaust out in the woods. I'd say more, but I've got to get to work.
If I remember right, 1980 Mt. St. Helens blast is what the data was from. I think it included industry emmissions also, not just vehicles.

 

[Scott S]

I have 7 Kobelco's on the jobsite right now, a couple with over 15,000 hours.

 

[Contract Logger]

I have 7 Kobelco's on the jobsite right now, a couple with over 15,000 hours.

I've seen them get 30,000 and I know 2 loggers now who still use 30,000+ hour Kobelco's for backspar, tailhold, and cleanup duty. I know another logger using a 30,000 hour 4300 Quantum loading under his yarder everyday. Lots of old iron still around- just depends on who was in the seat for those hours. I've seen alot more 3800 Madills get easily to 30,000+ hours still in full daily production than any other logging machine the last 5 years. The old high-hour die-hards used to be the Cat 235's, but fuel prices have made most of those go away now. In the 80's and early 90's they were everywhere.

I knew I'd get grief for that post.... I wasnt looking for an arguement with anyone, just offering one person's opinion. If you like the Kobelcos and are seeing some success, I only wish you more of that good luck. I sure dont wish ill on any logger. Life in the woods is difficult enough.

 

[Contract Logger]

How about those Beavers-- Any OSU fans out there?

Thunderbird Logger custom-painted for Allen & Gibbons. There was to be a U of O Green/White/Yellow 'Ducks' twin to this machine but that never did materialize.

I cannot imagine a better picture than 2 Eugene, Oregon-built logging machines parked grapple-to-grapple, each painted for one of the rival college teams!

I have a bunch of great pics of this machine I'll post in the Thunderbird Thread eventually.

Knowing my luck, Scott S. above is a Ducks fan.

 

[Scott S]

No Duck fan here, I don't root for laundry....

 

[Hallback]

I'm with Scott!!

 

[Ryan Rønning]

That is awesome. I am a die-hard Beaver fan.

 

[hoechucker]

i've loved that loader since i saw it in loggers world.it was only about a month or two ago my boss and i were looking at it in a&gs yard with the main boom torn off,but they were in the middle of gluing back together and beefing up the frame

 

[furpo]

RE; the best machine. That is a hard one. I have experience with Komatsu, Hitachi, Cat, Hyundai, Kobelco and Libherr. The Komatsu is a nice machine but expencive. I am impressed by the Hyundai. The Cat 324D would have to be one of the best all rounders. I am not a fan of the Cat FM models becasue the forestrey cab is a pain for shovelling. You have to be really carefull with the margaurd.

RE; emissions.

I wish this industry was more forward thinking. We should as an industry be demanding these things from or equipment manufactures long before it is mandated. If we wait until the law makers change the rules we will always end up in a pickle one way or another.

So why is it not? After all there are some very big companies and a lot of money floating around. In my opinion it is because those who are in charge of the money are not inovators at all. They are focused on short term profits and dont see the long term implications. For me the key for this industry to move forward is to become proactive rather than reactive. There are many who have been around longer than I, however, I am sick of the moaning with a lack of action. Staffing problems, low longing rates, tree huggers, markets, etc, etc are common gripes of the contractor. The issues would not exist if they are dealt with properly when they arise. We do not have to wait for someone else to be proactive. Just get off your arse and do it.

Thats my winge anyway.

 

[isx525]

RE; the best machine. That is a hard one. I have experience with Komatsu, Hitachi, Cat, Hyundai, Kobelco and Libherr. The Komatsu is a nice machine but expencive. I am impressed by the Hyundai. The Cat 324D would have to be one of the best all rounders. I am not a fan of the Cat FM models becasue the forestrey cab is a pain for shovelling. You have to be really carefull with the margaurd.

RE; emissions.

I wish this industry was more forward thinking. We should as an industry be demanding these things from or equipment manufactures long before it is mandated. If we wait until the law makers change the rules we will always end up in a pickle one way or another.

So why is it not? After all there are some very big companies and a lot of money floating around. In my opinion it is because those who are in charge of the money are not inovators at all. They are focused on short term profits and dont see the long term implications. For me the key for this industry to move forward is to become proactive rather than reactive. There are many who have been around longer than I, however, I am sick of the moaning with a lack of action. Staffing problems, low longing rates, tree huggers, markets, etc, etc are common gripes of the contractor. The issues would not exist if they are dealt with properly when they arise. We do not have to wait for someone else to be proactive. Just get off your arse and do it.

Thats my winge anyway.

x2 we need to embrace technology, not fight it.
isx