Injector Pump is off, Won't line up.

[lantraxco]

They both used the 188 diesel, what you have is the newer injection system with the pencil nozzles.

 

[rutwad]

Well I found out this afternoon from my dad that the head had been changed and is possibly where the different fuel lines came from.

Either way, I tried to start it and got this----well I recorded it but can't load. It turned over steadily for what I would say in through 3 cylinders. Then the next one was a tsssh, like air blowing. The cycle repeated.

 

[lantraxco]

Could be a stuck valve, or one out of adjustment, blown head gasket, loose injector... am I missing anything?

 

[rutwad]

Well that at least gives me a direction. Can I load a video from my phone to this site?

Could be a stuck valve, or one out of adjustment, blown head gasket, loose injector... am I missing anything?

 

[Tinkerer]

Well I found out this afternoon from my dad that the head had been changed and is possibly where the different fuel lines came from.

Either way, I tried to start it and got this----well I recorded it but can't load. It turned over steadily for what I would say in through 3 cylinders. Then the next one was a tsssh, like air blowing. The cycle repeated.

So, the heads were changed. But now you have the original pump installed that matched the older injectors. Is that correct ? Hopefully one of the pros here will advise you if that is acceptance situation. Maybe all of the valves need to be adjusted to the correct clearance. You may find a loose lock-nut on one of the rocker arms.

 

[greg9504]

Can I load a video from my phone to this site?

Upload to Youtube.com , then post the link to the video here.

 

[rutwad]

Tinkerer, you are correct. Head was changed, but many years ago. I cannot say if the old or new injectors were used, but according to the way the injectors mount in the 2 pictures, it appears to have injectors like the 530B. And the pump that has been on it for years is the pump on it now.

greg, I'll see what I can do about the video.

 

[rutwad]

Video

I have never uploaded to youtube, but I think it worked. May be the worst video ever, juggling phone, trying to position for viewing, and cranking. Sometimes an extra set of hands would be priceless, but nonetheless here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4MDt597r3w

 

[Tinkerer]

Have you tried giving it a SMALL shot of ether to get it started ? TOO much of it will lock up the engine and that is something you do not want to happen. Keep in mind pumpguy's advice about it blowing black smoke out the exhaust like a freight train if and when it starts -- shut the engine off as fast as you can. That is an indication of the wrong injector pump on it.

 

[kshansen]

Tinkerer, you are correct. Head was changed, but many years ago. I cannot say if the old or new injectors were used, but according to the way the injectors mount in the 2 pictures, it appears to have injectors like the 530B. And the pump that has been on it for years is the pump on it now.

greg, I'll see what I can do about the video.

Okay, can you say if this has ever run with the head that is on it?

 

[Tinkerer]

Okay, can you say if this has ever run with the head that is on it?

Good question. I wonder why the injector pump was taken off the first time. Poor ole Rutwad has been struggling with this thing a loooong time. Here is where it began. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...ed-injector-pump-need-help-timing-Case-530c-k

 

[rutwad]

This is the same injectors, pump, and head that have been on it for many, many years and always ran. I was showing my dad the difference in the fuel lines on the 530ck and 530B, he said that must be because they changed the head years ago. I don't know if they changed injectors or not. But again, it has the same components on it now that it has had for many years and ran.

Ether, yes. No luck there.

I don't know if youtube allows it to be played in slow motion, but I did on my computer. I still can't tell what's happening. I kept seeing white smoke. It mostly appears to be coming from the 2nd or 3rd valve from front of engine.

 

[rutwad]

This has turned into much more of a headache than I ever imagined. I don't know what I would do if it were mine, but I am trying to get it going for my dad. He has PD and recently became more depressed. But the backhoe is something he has mentioned on several occasions. I thought it would be a nice thing to have it running by his birthday November 29. Then I was shooting for Christmas. Now I am just trying for whenever, but I guarantee it won't be this year.

 

[Tinkerer]

But again, it has the same components on it now that it has had for many years and ran.
Ether, yes. No luck there.
I don't know if youtube allows it to be played in slow motion, but I did on my computer. I still can't tell what's happening. I kept seeing white smoke. It mostly appears to be coming from the 2nd or 3rd valve from front of engine.

At least we know it did run in the past and the only thing that has been altered/changed was the injector pump. Would that be correct ?
You say white smoke is coming out around a valve. That is a bad situation. Exactly where around the valve ? Intake or exhaust ?
Remove the injector for that cylinder, get the piston up on Top Dead Center ( both valves closed) and then put some air pressure in through the injector hole.. Squirt some oil around the valve stem and see for sure where the air is coming out. Let us know what you find. What is real strange is that it will not start with a shot of ether. Even with a valve leaking that bad. You might want to loosen the oil pan drain plug just enough to see if there is any coolant in the oil. No need to drain the oil.

 

[kshansen]

Seems like even if one or two valves were adjusted wrong or valves not working right due to rust or such it should at least try to run.

At this point I would be trying something some might feel is on the crude side.

I'd pull all four of the injector nozzles out and then connect them to the fuel lines from the pump, don't worry about the jumpers that connect the tops. Then crank over the engine while staying clear of the tips but watch for fuel spraying out them. Might take a bit of cranking to bled the air out. You should get a good puff of air out of each cylinder just before the fuel sprays out of the injector squirts. DO NOT, REPEAT, DO NOT get any body part near the nozzles while trying this! Fuel injected into skin can be fatal!

Fuel should come out in a fine mist not big drops or a stream.

This is a simple basic engine and should not be that big of a problem to fix once it can be determined what is and what is not working.

I and I'm sure others wish we were just up the road from you and could see this first hand as even with the best of pictures and questions there is always something missing that could be spotted in a few seconds while being there in person.

 

[rutwad]

That is correct. Only taken pump off and reinstalled. No valve adjustment or anything else.

 

[rutwad]

Not sure if youtube will let you, but I just watched the video through Windows Media player at half speed. Around 55 seconds into the video, 1 min. 30 sec., and very end I try to crank. The white smoke may be coming from #2. Hopefully my dad feels up to getting out today and I will let him try to crank and I may possibly get a better video.

MANY MANY Thanks for all the help!!

ps- on the injector pump shaft without the pump installed, is it possible to compress the spring holding the shaft enough that it could clear the gears and turn to a different position?

 

[rutwad]

As much as I hate to admit it, I may have to let my fingers do the walking and get some help here. SUCKS!!!

 

[Tinkerer]

As much as I hate to admit it, I may have to let my fingers do the walking and get some help here. SUCKS!!!

I would suggest that you have a CNH (Case) dealership technician come out and fix it. White smoke when cranking with a shot of ether and it still won't start tells me you have multiple issues with the timing and the fuel delivery. Keep us updated on your progress.

 

[rutwad]

Thanks Tinkerer and I will keep this updated. I think something else is going on besides the timing, and I have spent enough time trying to fix it.

I would suggest that you have a CNH (Case) dealership technician come out and fix it. White smoke when cranking with a shot of ether and it still won't start tells me you have multiple issues with the timing and the fuel delivery. Keep us updated on your progress.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND ADVICE!!!!