Friction Crane Operation-Tips and Tricks?

[Operator4100]

Hey, goy up this morning and got to looking on the www, and found this don't know if you have seen it, lots of info, DW

https://freecranespecs.com/P-H/430A-TC

 

[alskdjfhg]

Hey, goy up this morning and got to looking on the www, and found this don't know if you have seen it, lots of info, DW

https://freecranespecs.com/P-H/430A-TC

Cool, almost the same machine.

Unfortunately no pictures of the things on the carrier, but they are what was surmised. And what's more it looks like there is a hydraulic system of sorts to raise and lower the counterweight. The pointy things have what look like cylinders under neither them, no time to really investigate, but I think this controls them somehow.

http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/m...160206_142551_zpsmng3kyo9.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Got the counterweight up and the gantry raised, also got the boom sorted. I'm sure we installed the boom in the most inefficient way, took a half a day of fighting to get the bridle lines attached, but it's done. And now that' I've done it, I think it'll be much easier next time.

Any tips about the jib? I'd like to go ahead and put it on if possible.

I'm going to have to redo the hook block, made a bit of a mistake running the lines, but won't be too bad to correct. The cable terminator doesn't fit the hole in the boom for it, it's the right size, but the cable blocks it just slightly. Using a clevis right now to go from the terminator to the boom (sure that's super illegal).

I think the house brake could use some adjustment, it swings quite easily with it engaged, have to kinda feather with the opposite swing clutch to cancel the movement.

So far just some more maintenance (fluids and filters for the lower and a leaking outrigger line), I think the major bugs have been sorted. I just need to get used to operating it. It's extremely fun to run, but I can easily see how something can get away from an operator. It's not a sit back and operate machine, that's for sure....

Another thing is hearing protection is not an option on this machine, ran it for about 30 min without earmuffs, I still hear that little screaming Detroit.....

 

[Operator4100]

Hey, your looking good, we've all made mistakes reeving a block that's the way you learn, any way I would bet your swing brake is hyd. over spring, that system didn't work good at all. If your using the reverse swing to stop the swing then your doing it right, the brake is to hold it in that position. we will make an operator out of you yet, keep at it.

 

[old-iron-habit]

I think you should practice a bit with the crane and the multi part line before you start using the jib. Jibs are delicate compared to your short main boom and "geared" down via sheaves hoist line. You can add it easily enough when you need it. One thing to make sure of is that you have no twists in your hoist line. If the block does not track straight, simply take the becket loose and untwist it. Be careful, if it has a couple twists in the line it can easily wrap up your hand torturing your fingers if you don't have a good hold of it. It will want to go to the neutral position. Usually shows up after you have run the ine in and out a number of times.

 

[alskdjfhg]

we will make an operator out of you yet.

One can hope.

My issue with the swing brake is that it hardly holds at all. Say I swing right 90 degrees, use the left swing clutch to slow/stop myself, set the brake and start booming up/down eventually I'll start swinging left because the clutches that was last used drags. I think I just need to figure-out how to tighten up the brake a bit and work the machine to try and get the crud burned out of the friction elements. It was a bit disconcerting the first time it did this.....

Next I need to see about making some outrigger pads and getting some slings and rigging.

I wish I had a 10' boom section, I kinda like the 50' boom load chart better than the 60' boom for some machinery I'm going to have to unload from a truck.

 

[alskdjfhg]

I think you should practice a bit with the crane and the multi part line before you start using the jib.

Sounds reasonable enough to me.

 

[Operator4100]

Good idea, keep that jib off until your used to the rig and get the bugs out of it, What's the chart differ in cap. vs. 60 ft. and 50 ft.?
Dang no outrigger pads???? this crane is probably gonna be for your use only so build some, they are gonna be heavy but what the heck.
I would bet your crane has a master cylinder connected to your swing brake via. slave cylinder? those take a lot of working on them to get them right, you want the swing brake band to just drag a little, then work on it some more lol,

 

[alskdjfhg]

Yup the brake is a slave cylinder system, once I'm at the machine again I'll see about adjusting it.

Nope no outrigger pads, not even any feet for the adjustment screws on the outriggers, will need to make something so they will be able to bear on the pads.

What do ya'll like for outrigger pads? I'd imagine making them round would make them easier to move around, but be simpler and provide more bearing area to make them square. I was thinking of a 4'x4' square of 3/4" treated plywood sandwiching treated 4x4's. Heavy enough?

Here's a picture of the load chart, I'm not sure exactly of the weight of the machinery I'm going to have to move, but I think it'll weight around 25tons. A bit heavy for 60', but I don't have a 10' boom section anyhow, so if I need more capacity I'll have to go down to 40', I'll have plenty of lift then. The idea of messing with the boom length again isn't very exciting though....

http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/mebunting/media/440TC/20160206_141927_zpsse8w5kpx.jpg.html

 

[lantraxco]

Well, only if you can actually do any work at less than a 20' radius? Other than that the load charts are near identical for 50' and 60', just gotta have it straight up.

 

[alskdjfhg]

One machine that I'm nearly certain I'll be unloading will weight 43,000lbs and will fit comfortably on a deck over semi trailer.

I would be able to work at less than a 20' radius, just have to lift it up off the truck and lower it straight down and it's a pretty small machine, about 10'x10'x10'. Won't have as much room to work with slings, but should be manageable.

That lift would be at 80% of the capacity of the 60' boom (at 20' radius), I'd feel a bit better choking up on it some more.

 

[alskdjfhg]

Thinking about slings, probably a stupid question. But do you factor in D/d ratios with synthetic slings like you do with chain and cable?

 

[old-iron-habit]

One can hope.

My issue with the swing brake is that it hardly holds at all. Say I swing right 90 degrees, use the left swing clutch to slow/stop myself, set the brake and start booming up/down eventually I'll start swinging left because the clutches that was last used drags. I think I just need to figure-out how to tighten up the brake a bit and work the machine to try and get the crud burned out of the friction elements. It was a bit disconcerting the first time it did this.....

Next I need to see about making some outrigger pads and getting some slings and rigging.

I wish I had a 10' boom section, I kinda like the 50' boom load chart better than the 60' boom for some machinery I'm going to have to unload from a truck.

A good practice to swinging is to be boomed down about 45 degrees, lower the block to 10 ft off the ground, swing a little quicker, stop your boom, then when the block keeps swinging out a bit, swing over it and stop the boom over the block so it remains still. Get that down and your swing clutches and brakes will probably be shined up and you will be comfortable swinging with a load.

 

[alskdjfhg]

Thanks Old Iron.

Any technique for boom up/down? Boom up is pretty east, but boom down not so much. In order to get the clutch and pawl to engage right I have to boom down faster than I'd like, and when I let off the boom kinda sways up and down some.

Just a matter of getting used to the machine?

 

[Operator4100]

Hey, I bet your 2 pawls aren't catching right, one or the other should catch the boom hoist drum remember those have to be free on the pin they are mounted on. Dw

 

[td25c]

Nope no outrigger pads, not even any feet for the adjustment screws on the outriggers, will need to make something so they will be able to bear on the pads.

What do ya'll like for outrigger pads? I'd imagine making them round would make them easier to move around, but be simpler and provide more bearing area to make them square. I was thinking of a 4'x4' square of 3/4" treated plywood sandwiching treated 4x4's. Heavy enough?

It might pay to backtrack to the auction yard and original owner for the outrigger stands . Probably laying around somewhere ?

I think your pad idea will work fine . Would go with oak or hickory myself for the 4X4's .

We use loose cribbing in various size & length depending on conditions .

 

[alskdjfhg]

Hey, I bet your 2 pawls aren't catching right, one or the other should catch the boom hoist drum remember those have to be free on the pin they are mounted on. Dw

I'll take a look at it and see.

It might pay to backtrack to the auction yard and original owner for the outrigger stands . Probably laying around somewhere ?

Would go with oak or hickory myself

I doubt it. The guy that towed the crane to the farm for me was the guy that towed it to the auction yard. He wouldn't say exactly where it was from, but apparently the machine was sold due to a back foreclosure, along with a bunch of other machinery.

Hard wood would really be best, I've been meaning to have some hard wood dunnage made up, pine get's annoying. It's light, but it sure does like to spit.

 

[td25c]

I doubt it. The guy that towed the crane to the farm for me was the guy that towed it to the auction yard. He wouldn't say exactly where it was from, but apparently the machine was sold due to a back foreclosure, along with a bunch of other machinery.

That's a pretty good clue . May have to lean on the wrecker driver for more information . The jack stands are pretty important on that machine .

Unfortunately at auction time component's like that often get separated from the machine . Amazing you got the block with it .

Original owner more than likely has the stands , probably laying around the shop or he's mowing around them .

Where's Columbo when we need him .

 

[Operator4100]

they were made of aluminum ,,,, scraped !!!

 

[alskdjfhg]

I'm just happy the thing works. Paying what I paid for it and it not really needing anything makes me look at the lack of outrigger stands as slight annoyance. I was just gonna fab something up out of plate, won't be as pretty as the ones you posted td25c, but they'd work for me.

This weekend, now that I'm getting a break from tests (just in time for finals to start.....), I'll see about taking a quick video of the machine going through the motions and let you real operators critique.

 

[td25c]

That was my next question if you could just do a simple round plate foot with a short socket welded in the center ?

It would set lower then the original stand so probably have to use cribbing anyway for added hight .

My Grove rigs use a round plate as the foot . We then start with a piece of oak 14" wide X 48" long X 4" thick . Add more cribbing when needed . https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...the-first-time&p=591073&viewfull=1#post591073