biggixxerjim
Senior Member
Proper english would make this a LOT easier to read......
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
"Feeling" lines with the backhoe
- Thread starter digger242j
- Start date
Proper english would make this a LOT easier to read......
digger242j
Administrator
Some people are better able to express their thoughts in writing than others are. I doubt that there's anyone here who intentionally makes their posts difficult to read.
Tigerotor77W
Senior Member
I don't know if anyone noticed this, but heavyequipmentforums.com was mentioned in the April 2007 issue of Construction Equipment Magazine!
I'll try to remember to scan it and post it here in the next few days...
I'll try to remember to scan it and post it here in the next few days...
digger242j
Administrator
Tigerotor77W
Senior Member
Heh.
Once again, my ability to read the entire forum is limited.
But don't worry; not all engineers are as challenged as I am when it comes to keeping up to date with threads. There is some hope left for customers who actually write to engineers about product improvements...
tuney443
Senior Member
I think we're all basically saying the same thing here---safety first,do not break the underground utility,time is money--once you locate the utility and you can clearly see it,then proceed slowly and carefully with your digger,whatever it may be.Dayexco--now that the cat's out of the bag regarding your age--remember that old adage--''listen to your elders''.I'm 54.
dayexco
Senior Member
I think we're all basically saying the same thing here---safety first,do not break the underground utility,time is money--once you locate the utility and you can clearly see it,then proceed slowly and carefully with your digger,whatever it may be.Dayexco--now that the cat's out of the bag regarding your age--remember that old adage--''listen to your elders''.I'm 54.
LOL tuney, i've made so many mistakes in my life, i can't count them. but when it comes to hurting somebody....an experience i've had personally, i feel it gives me the right to bark at the young ones here and hope they hear and learn something from my mistake.
listen and listen well...PLEASE!!!! there is no project you'll ever have in your life, that will offset the grief you'll bear should you kill.....or hurt somebody.
my incident happened when i was young and knew everthing, but this poor guy is full of stainless steel to this day. screws, plates, etc.....think about it...what is another half day of digging/compacting to make an excavation safe, faced with the alternative?
Water-N-Mine
Member
I spent alot of time digging in and around utilities. Generally I go with my gut if I feel like there is something there I will stop and go look generally and about 90% of the time I am correct.Alot of this has to do with luck but it's better safe then sorry. I also pay close attention to the soil in the excavation .If it is mixed up or there is definitly trench lines in the wall, then I dig carefully or stop and start looking.
Over the last few years the accidents I have had with breaks. Are due more to mismarks or no mark. This also costs T&M because we have to call ELM (locator service) to come back out. Only to watch them scratch their heads.ointhead They have done this most recently to gas and fiber lines which obviously should be marked. I tend to get bent out of shape to the locators over gas or electric more so then anything else.
Infact the last time this happened was over a 2" grey gas line. We were looking to tap a 2" grey PVC waterline. When the guys got down there they noticed a tracer wire. I immediatly knew what it was and it wasn't water. Thank god we didn't try to tap it!:ban I called "one call " and told the operator what happened. She said could couldn't immediatly send someone out. As this could not be an emercency because nothing was broke. It would be a non compliant ticket and there would be someone there in the next two days. I said well do you want me to break it??? Then I can have someone our here in 10 minutes at your companies cost?? :bash She said "I DIDN'T SAY THAT!" I said WELL....get someone out here! A locate truck was there in 30 minutes.:drinkup
Also happened recently over a unmarked fiber that we got lucky and found close to the hard way. It ran the everything for 80 miles south. Glad we didn't hit it either. Woulda been some suits there. Atleast we'd been paid O.T. :drinkup
Moral of the story..never trust a locator....
Over the last few years the accidents I have had with breaks. Are due more to mismarks or no mark. This also costs T&M because we have to call ELM (locator service) to come back out. Only to watch them scratch their heads.
ointhead They have done this most recently to gas and fiber lines which obviously should be marked. I tend to get bent out of shape to the locators over gas or electric more so then anything else. Infact the last time this happened was over a 2" grey gas line. We were looking to tap a 2" grey PVC waterline. When the guys got down there they noticed a tracer wire. I immediatly knew what it was and it wasn't water. Thank god we didn't try to tap it!:ban I called "one call " and told the operator what happened. She said could couldn't immediatly send someone out. As this could not be an emercency because nothing was broke. It would be a non compliant ticket and there would be someone there in the next two days. I said well do you want me to break it??? Then I can have someone our here in 10 minutes at your companies cost?? :bash She said "I DIDN'T SAY THAT!" I said WELL....get someone out here! A locate truck was there in 30 minutes.:drinkup
Also happened recently over a unmarked fiber that we got lucky and found close to the hard way. It ran the everything for 80 miles south. Glad we didn't hit it either. Woulda been some suits there. Atleast we'd been paid O.T. :drinkup
Moral of the story..never trust a locator....
Tacodriver
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2006
- Messages
- 105
- Location
- East Kootaneys
- Occupation
- Yarder op, hoechucker, lowbedder etc..
We refer to a excavator or backhoe as a "positive location device." If it wasen't properly located before well now it is. :bash
mflah87
Well-Known Member
Amen to that it may have a few nice bends in it after.
tuney443
Senior Member
I spent alot of time digging in and around utilities. Generally I go with my gut if I feel like there is something there I will stop and go look generally and about 90% of the time I am correct.Alot of this has to do with luck but it's better safe then sorry. I also pay close attention to the soil in the excavation .If it is mixed up or there is definitly trench lines in the wall, then I dig carefully or stop and start looking.
Over the last few years the accidents I have had with breaks. Are due more to mismarks or no mark. This also costs T&M because we have to call ELM (locator service) to come back out. Only to watch them scratch their heads.
Infact the last time this happened was over a 2" grey gas line. We were looking to tap a 2" grey PVC waterline. When the guys got down there they noticed a tracer wire. I immediatly knew what it was and it wasn't water. Thank god we didn't try to tap it!:ban I called "one call " and told the operator what happened. She said could couldn't immediatly send someone out. As this could not be an emercency because nothing was broke. It would be a non compliant ticket and there would be someone there in the next two days. I said well do you want me to break it??? Then I can have someone our here in 10 minutes at your companies cost?? :bash She said "I DIDN'T SAY THAT!" I said WELL....get someone out here! A locate truck was there in 30 minutes.:drinkup
Also happened recently over a unmarked fiber that we got lucky and found close to the hard way. It ran the everything for 80 miles south. Glad we didn't hit it either. Woulda been some suits there. Atleast we'd been paid O.T. :drinkup
Moral of the story..never trust a locator....
Exactly,XX2. Our local power company farms out to a locating company who I have absolutely no faith in.One job that they marked out for me for gas service was 20' off.I knew this before I started digging because all you had to do was line yourself up between the valve by the street and the gas meter on the building---AKA--a straight line!!!When the whiz kid came back upon my insistence,I showed him,he got out his meter,he said ''Wow--I'm getting a stronger reading here than where I first marked out.'' I said no s***,you think? I had to dig in the area of his first mark-out--turned out to be some wire from a demolished building that got buried---that's why I was there to take care of a huge sink hole that almost swallowed a car. This company gets $75 for every mark-out,right or wrong,and each time they come out.I now just call the power company after they leave and tell them there's some problem and they need to come out---just to cover my caboose.
ForsytheBros.
Well-Known Member
mismarked utilities
Ahhh, the joys of "backhoe locates"!
We are big proponents of disposable cameras prior to/during excavation near existing utilities. Anybody else out there taking jobsite photos?
Ahhh, the joys of "backhoe locates"!
We are big proponents of disposable cameras prior to/during excavation near existing utilities. Anybody else out there taking jobsite photos?
dayexco
Senior Member
every job we do has it's own dig pic file....before, during, after. saves a lot of arguements
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the size of the excavator or backhoe.
There is certainly a direct relationship between the size of the machine and the size of object that would cause enough resistance to feel.
There is certainly a direct relationship between the size of the machine and the size of object that would cause enough resistance to feel.
ronscons
Member
"Feeling Lines"
In Canada generally [and likely US as well], it is illegal to dig within 1/2 meter of any underground facility. [18 in.] with a machine [check out OHS regulations in your province or state]. Line must be hydrovaced, or hand dug till pipe, line, cable etc. can be visually seen. Then sight must be maintained until excavation is complete. It does not matter the consistency of soil or anything else. OHS will shut you down if these requirments are not met. If you proceed, you can be criminally charged. This applies on your own private property as well. Normally the owner of the facility will demand that his representative be on site to witness during excavation and a crossing/encroachment agreement on paper has to be in place as to each party's responsibilities.
Sorry guys, I am really anal about this as should be anyone else involved. I have completed now well in excess of 1200 line crossings in 4 provinces as a consultant for various oil/gas and power companies. All have been successfull with NO pipe strikes by equipment. However I have much personal knowledge of some who weren't so fortunate, and actually a few fatalities, usually the guy sitting in the hoe or crawler seat. When these line strikes happen, the costs in human suffering, material and equipment costs, enviromental damage and lost production become astronomical. Yep, we say we're insured but how do you tell 10 yr. old Johnny that, when his Dad got fried in the cab of his trackhoe when he hit a 6" gas line. Pretty sobering! But we been doing that for 30 years, you protest. Too damn bad-- you been doing it wrong and were real, real lucky for 30 yrs. I close by saying that anyone who sticks hoe teeth in the ground without the safe guards in place is some kind of moron who should not be allowed around any machinery of any kind. "Well, I thought" doesn't cut it.
In Canada generally [and likely US as well], it is illegal to dig within 1/2 meter of any underground facility. [18 in.] with a machine [check out OHS regulations in your province or state]. Line must be hydrovaced, or hand dug till pipe, line, cable etc. can be visually seen. Then sight must be maintained until excavation is complete. It does not matter the consistency of soil or anything else. OHS will shut you down if these requirments are not met. If you proceed, you can be criminally charged. This applies on your own private property as well. Normally the owner of the facility will demand that his representative be on site to witness during excavation and a crossing/encroachment agreement on paper has to be in place as to each party's responsibilities.
Sorry guys, I am really anal about this as should be anyone else involved. I have completed now well in excess of 1200 line crossings in 4 provinces as a consultant for various oil/gas and power companies. All have been successfull with NO pipe strikes by equipment. However I have much personal knowledge of some who weren't so fortunate, and actually a few fatalities, usually the guy sitting in the hoe or crawler seat. When these line strikes happen, the costs in human suffering, material and equipment costs, enviromental damage and lost production become astronomical. Yep, we say we're insured but how do you tell 10 yr. old Johnny that, when his Dad got fried in the cab of his trackhoe when he hit a 6" gas line. Pretty sobering! But we been doing that for 30 years, you protest. Too damn bad-- you been doing it wrong and were real, real lucky for 30 yrs. I close by saying that anyone who sticks hoe teeth in the ground without the safe guards in place is some kind of moron who should not be allowed around any machinery of any kind. "Well, I thought" doesn't cut it.
surfer-joe
Senior Member
Well said ronscons! Well said!
equipment jedi
Member
Feeling buried lines a little risky eh?
Being the new guy I dont want to ruffle any feathers, but finding lines by "feel" can be downright deadly
Being the new guy I dont want to ruffle any feathers, but finding lines by "feel" can be downright deadly
Countryboy
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2006
- Messages
- 3,276
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Welcome to HEF equipment jedi! :drinkup
digger242j
Administrator
Even if "The Force" is strong within you? :cool2
(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
Welcome to the forums!
equipment jedi
Member
Even the Force has its limits.
I was hesitant to use the Jedi handle, but thats what all my students call me and it was kind of a dare. Being an instructor and always preaching Locates and OSHA Standards its a hard habit to break. And I have been called in to investigate a lot of horrific accidents resulting from finding buried stuff by "feel"
I was hesitant to use the Jedi handle, but thats what all my students call me and it was kind of a dare. Being an instructor and always preaching Locates and OSHA Standards its a hard habit to break. And I have been called in to investigate a lot of horrific accidents resulting from finding buried stuff by "feel"