DMiller
Senior Member
Charging stations numbers are not the problem, the materials level/time required of grid overhaul to support the added stations is.
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Electric coming to your transit company?
- Thread starter DMiller
- Start date
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
Just before Teslas were invented on the scene in a real way, there was a new 230 kv transmission line being proposed across the Central Valley of California.
Nothing special, there are already a dozen of them in the same area going in straight lines built in the 1920s-1960s.
This one would zig and zag to avoid areas that have become sensitive since the original ones were built, have slender towers, low heights, and darkened conductors in sensitive areas to lessen visual impact, etc.
Protests were made, years went by and I think the project just died.
The major objection made was that we need to be decreasing energy consumption, not increasing it. But the shift from liquid/vapor fuels to electric was apparently not on the radar of the people protesting.
Unintended consequences.
Nothing special, there are already a dozen of them in the same area going in straight lines built in the 1920s-1960s.
This one would zig and zag to avoid areas that have become sensitive since the original ones were built, have slender towers, low heights, and darkened conductors in sensitive areas to lessen visual impact, etc.
Protests were made, years went by and I think the project just died.
The major objection made was that we need to be decreasing energy consumption, not increasing it. But the shift from liquid/vapor fuels to electric was apparently not on the radar of the people protesting.
Unintended consequences.
DMiller
Senior Member
Call them NIMBY’s here
Not In My Back Yard
Have similar issues adding transmission capabilities and heavier distribution services.
Not In My Back Yard
Have similar issues adding transmission capabilities and heavier distribution services.
John C.
Senior Member
Increasing numbers of people being concentrated in urban centers requiring more energy for the basics of living. Reduced sources of energy due to a misinformed populace that has lost perspective on what it takes to power mass transit, trucks, cars, house and appliances. In the Northwest, hydroelectric dams and anything that touches a water stream is considered a pollution source. Wind mills and solar plants are considered non polluting. The population conveniently forgets that those sources do wear out and there is a pollution penalty for their removal, destruction and disposal. What is also forgotten is to this point that they are not economically viable without tax support from the populace. The other issue is storage of excess production (batteries) and the economic and ecological impact of their production and later disposal. We are coming to an inflection point and will soon be having a come to Jesus conversation dealing with a declining standard of living. Our current heat wave here in the Northwest is just a symptom of things to come.
DMiller
Senior Member
Can relate to that 'Come To Jesus' conversation, had one the other day with a cretan that was pushing the ALL Electric stuff while in same breath calling for closure of all non-renewables stations, had NOT a clue and told her so. Got that Deer In Headlights look as threw actual viability numbers at her.
Actually expect On Roof Solar units to power Battery Charging for these machines, voltage incorrect, requires more cells, requires more adaptation to feed the machines and area to feed them. My old Company is setting a Solar Farm at I-70 and MO 19 at New Florence MO, proposed delivery at close to 4mW where peak delivery will only be 6-7 hours during summer daylight 3-4 hours winter, off peak hours less than 6 hours summer and 3 hours winter daylight where ramps up or down where took out near to 140 acres of Prime tillable ground. Several Hundred Wind Turbines to make a farm of 1000mW where less than 4/5 units will ever be in operation at a time and the 1/5 in stages of maintenance or repair or backup. Takes MASS Acreage in a 'Well Suited Wind Environment' to perform well. All sorts of calls for specialized, beyond belief or reality power supply systems that cannot be overall adapted into the systems.
Actually expect On Roof Solar units to power Battery Charging for these machines, voltage incorrect, requires more cells, requires more adaptation to feed the machines and area to feed them. My old Company is setting a Solar Farm at I-70 and MO 19 at New Florence MO, proposed delivery at close to 4mW where peak delivery will only be 6-7 hours during summer daylight 3-4 hours winter, off peak hours less than 6 hours summer and 3 hours winter daylight where ramps up or down where took out near to 140 acres of Prime tillable ground. Several Hundred Wind Turbines to make a farm of 1000mW where less than 4/5 units will ever be in operation at a time and the 1/5 in stages of maintenance or repair or backup. Takes MASS Acreage in a 'Well Suited Wind Environment' to perform well. All sorts of calls for specialized, beyond belief or reality power supply systems that cannot be overall adapted into the systems.
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Birken Vogt
Charter Member
This chart shows the scale of the problem well.
A. Williamson
Active Member
Just FYI it's the same energy density. The numbers of the batteries refer to dimensions. The only difference between the two batteries is a metal tab that improves conductivity.
A. Williamson
Active Member
Sorry i was thinking of the difference between 21700 and 46800 cells
Truck Shop
Senior Member
The real problem-too many people.
Truck Shop
Senior Member
U.S. population in 1950-151,325,798.----------------------Population in 2020-331,002,651.
DMiller
Senior Member
Seems the game changer was the Boomer explosion. Great jobs, great pay, great benefits and baby factories couples.
John C.
Senior Member
Boomers, after WWII, mom and dad (The Greatest Generation) went through the depression, prized hard work and education, lived without electricity and indoor plumbing for a time, understood where their food came from and passed most of that down to their boomer children. Boomers dealt with Vietnam, loosening of ethical standards, societal and political change, prized education and/or hard work to a point. Most always had electricity and indoor plumbing and were driving cars as soon as they turned sixteen. Many lost sight of where their food came from. Succeeding generations can't function without electricity and their smart phones, think that killing animals for food is the same thing as murdering people, believe there is no need for indoor plumbing as sewage is can be dropped on the sidewalk anytime someone feels the urge, believe education is just a place where they can meet new people to be social with and that someone will be available to drive them wherever they might want to go.
It seems we are overdue for a paradigm shift.
It seems we are overdue for a paradigm shift.
I generally don't care for Michel Moore but I watched his latest movie and it's about all the bull the greenies are trying to push on renewable energy.
It's close enough to the truth that the greenies hate it .
Planet of the Humans about 1:40 hours on u-tube it's worth the watch.
Bob
It's close enough to the truth that the greenies hate it .
Planet of the Humans about 1:40 hours on u-tube it's worth the watch.
Bob
Truck Shop
Senior Member
And this goes in so many directions. When the wife worked for Pacific Power and there was a storm the phone calls asking when the power would be back on was to say
ridiculous. When things like this happen the common/natural thing to do it seems is to check how cold fridge is every ten minutes. We have no water, I can't open the
garage door-----and so on. If the power grid failed people would be at each others throats in no time. We live in a me, me, me society. It's in every aspect of our lives
it seems. Most boomers don't like what I say-I don't know how many times I hear someone my age ranting about the last two generations and how lazy they are.
Also quick to forget how their own children are not the shining examples they think. It's always {Oh no my kids know better than that, I raised them right} Really-
one week ago you were gripping how your always bailing them out of one thing or another.
A couple years ago Wanapum Dam on the Columbia River developed a crack-It was repaired-for awhile it caused a stir. People drive by those dams and never even
give it a thought that one could fail {That will never happen} until that happened and Wanapum pool behind the dam was lowered 65' to perform repairs. Then
it was the talk.
Society in general takes much of life for granted.
ridiculous. When things like this happen the common/natural thing to do it seems is to check how cold fridge is every ten minutes. We have no water, I can't open the
garage door-----and so on. If the power grid failed people would be at each others throats in no time. We live in a me, me, me society. It's in every aspect of our lives
it seems. Most boomers don't like what I say-I don't know how many times I hear someone my age ranting about the last two generations and how lazy they are.
Also quick to forget how their own children are not the shining examples they think. It's always {Oh no my kids know better than that, I raised them right} Really-
one week ago you were gripping how your always bailing them out of one thing or another.
A couple years ago Wanapum Dam on the Columbia River developed a crack-It was repaired-for awhile it caused a stir. People drive by those dams and never even
give it a thought that one could fail {That will never happen} until that happened and Wanapum pool behind the dam was lowered 65' to perform repairs. Then
it was the talk.
Society in general takes much of life for granted.
Had my cell phone out for nearly an entire day a few months ago rogers network was down virtually all of canada, got to admit that was absolute hell. No calls, emails, nothing. Impossible trying to run a business, couldn't work and know many others just sent everyone home too. If it was back when people still had landlines and paper plans etc were still in paper it wouldn't be so bad, but I can't remember the last time I printed out any plans it's just so much easier to pull them up on the phone.
As far as population, it's immigration that's upping the population so much, people already living in north america aren't having enough kids to even maintain the population.
Boomers may have a point in some things, but in many ways they had it a lot easier. Leave high school easily get a good paying job and easy to afford a house, etc and prices went insane so even owning 1 house is a good retirement plan. Things aren't even close to that anymore. There is no way in the next 50-60 years house prices will go up 10 fold like they did the the previous time. I think kids who grew up with social media can have it pretty rough sometimes too.
I am totally one of those "kids these days won't work" attitude, but in reality there is plenty of deadbeats who don't want to work from all age groups. I haven't been around long enough to know if it's gotten worse, I would guess it has though. Largely because just in construction there is so much more equipment around making jobs easier, and people still bitch that it's hard. Expect someone to actually use a shovel and they look at you like you have two heads, like it's such a foreign concept.
As far as population, it's immigration that's upping the population so much, people already living in north america aren't having enough kids to even maintain the population.
Boomers may have a point in some things, but in many ways they had it a lot easier. Leave high school easily get a good paying job and easy to afford a house, etc and prices went insane so even owning 1 house is a good retirement plan. Things aren't even close to that anymore. There is no way in the next 50-60 years house prices will go up 10 fold like they did the the previous time. I think kids who grew up with social media can have it pretty rough sometimes too.
I am totally one of those "kids these days won't work" attitude, but in reality there is plenty of deadbeats who don't want to work from all age groups. I haven't been around long enough to know if it's gotten worse, I would guess it has though. Largely because just in construction there is so much more equipment around making jobs easier, and people still bitch that it's hard. Expect someone to actually use a shovel and they look at you like you have two heads, like it's such a foreign concept.
Spud_Monkey
Senior Member
And because of this we have Puget Sound from Washington state is putting a windmill farm up 50 miles or closer to the north of this city. Yes way too f#@$! out here from Washington state and they are raping this side of Montana’s farm land to save their precious fish.
As @DMiller put it NIMBY’s is why they are doing it, out of sight out of mind and no one got a say in the matter before it was approved.
DMiller
Senior Member
My iphone generally sits in the truck cupholder well away from me as I drive. I can still receive phone calls thru my hearing aids but cannot make one except a quick redial of last call inbound if lose signal and drop them. I ignore much of my email, unsubscribe to a great deal of the crap mails where only receive a easy dozen active mails from people I want to talk to. Political crap money beggars get on my trash list pretty quick.
Had a Millennial tell me I was "Too Backward to understand real life" while thumb hammering on his whatever tablet/phone device trying to prove me wrong, was no signal strength where we were and I stated so, he desperate to prove me wrong was trying everything to get something to come up internet or phone calls. Could not believe he was in such a backwater to not have a signal, was in Big Spring MO not fifteen miles from my home, Dead Hole. He was too tech geek'd to understand his life is a lie and tied at the hip to tech that can and does fail.
We have power failures as on a REA here, can stand not having power a few hours, just do not work the fridge or freezer, or well tank supply, can still pee in the front yard, know how to deal with crapping in the woods even during snowfalls. Have stored dehydrated foods can fall back to or if need be have connections to run my generator to reload the well tank, clean up a bit or even use lights or heat. Could care less of phone.
Had a Millennial tell me I was "Too Backward to understand real life" while thumb hammering on his whatever tablet/phone device trying to prove me wrong, was no signal strength where we were and I stated so, he desperate to prove me wrong was trying everything to get something to come up internet or phone calls. Could not believe he was in such a backwater to not have a signal, was in Big Spring MO not fifteen miles from my home, Dead Hole. He was too tech geek'd to understand his life is a lie and tied at the hip to tech that can and does fail.
We have power failures as on a REA here, can stand not having power a few hours, just do not work the fridge or freezer, or well tank supply, can still pee in the front yard, know how to deal with crapping in the woods even during snowfalls. Have stored dehydrated foods can fall back to or if need be have connections to run my generator to reload the well tank, clean up a bit or even use lights or heat. Could care less of phone.
JAKES.
Well-Known Member
When it comes to electric vehichles it is never mentioned they too have carbon footprint. The collection batteries do not stand the test of time and will ultimately create more waste. Just like there are many vehicles waiting for computer chips which is due to a mineral shortage solar panels are made of minerals of finite supply too. fun fact: the amount of energy it takes to make a solar panel cannot be achieved by solar power alone. I have a co-worker whom leased a Tesla for a trial period; got a flat tire ,there was no spare tire on board because there is no place to fit it in! I also love the thought that the price of a f150 lightning projected base price of $ 60k is triple the cost of what a Boomer paid for there first home!
DMiller
Senior Member
Well METRO is breaking down and accepting a construct of a Specialized Specific substation for the recharging station at the Main Garage. Will be fed from a specific line at 7200v with end use defined transformer to a DC rectifier charger station all built into the same structure. Estimate is 2 mos. time to completion. Will ONLY support 6 connection ports, with two ABB charger units and three stations each, 150kw/hr each port at 450vDC. Figures to 330Amps EACH port continuous delivery where requires six hours to recharge to operate for four hours daily.