If nobody has already said, as far as the missing parts you could join ACMOC and see if any of those people have them or know where you can find them. Somebody on there may even be able to fix you up with a used piston and liner if needed
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Caterpillar 12 grader engine is dead - please help?
- Thread starter Entropy1
- Start date
Entropy1
Well-Known Member
Well, learned something new today (talking with the guy at Olson's Gaskets).
I learned that the D318 engine was put into the D6 dozer, and not the D8 dozer. Specifically, the D6 from 1947 to 1958 (8U- an 9U- serial numbers). The D318 was also installed in a DW10 (serial numbers 1V-). I'm pretty sure someone told me that previously - but I spaced. . . .The misunderstanding was due to my seeing a D318 for sale, where the seller stated it was pulled from a D8.
I also learned that a top-end gasket set for the D318 currently costs 750 dollars. The oil pan gasket costs 50 dollars, and the rest of the engine gaskets are no longer available (at least through Olson's Gaskets). He said I might still be able to purchase the remaining gaskets from a CAT dealer, but they will not come in a kit. To order a complete set of D318 gaskets from CAT, I must provide them with each individual gasket part number. It will be a pain in the butt to place an order, and it will likely cost me over a grand.
I suppose in a pinch I can cut the remaining unavailable gaskets from sheet. The injector O-rings, valve cover, oil pan, and most importantly the head gasket are still available. I was going to order a gasket set today (to get me motivated), and the price has me right back to being completely discouraged. I'm not going to purchase any more D318 parts or tooling until I get this engine pulled apart - to see if it's even rebuildable. I've seen what frozen water does to cast iron, and it isn't pretty. . . .
I learned that the D318 engine was put into the D6 dozer, and not the D8 dozer. Specifically, the D6 from 1947 to 1958 (8U- an 9U- serial numbers). The D318 was also installed in a DW10 (serial numbers 1V-). I'm pretty sure someone told me that previously - but I spaced. . . .The misunderstanding was due to my seeing a D318 for sale, where the seller stated it was pulled from a D8.
I also learned that a top-end gasket set for the D318 currently costs 750 dollars. The oil pan gasket costs 50 dollars, and the rest of the engine gaskets are no longer available (at least through Olson's Gaskets). He said I might still be able to purchase the remaining gaskets from a CAT dealer, but they will not come in a kit. To order a complete set of D318 gaskets from CAT, I must provide them with each individual gasket part number. It will be a pain in the butt to place an order, and it will likely cost me over a grand.
I suppose in a pinch I can cut the remaining unavailable gaskets from sheet. The injector O-rings, valve cover, oil pan, and most importantly the head gasket are still available. I was going to order a gasket set today (to get me motivated), and the price has me right back to being completely discouraged. I'm not going to purchase any more D318 parts or tooling until I get this engine pulled apart - to see if it's even rebuildable. I've seen what frozen water does to cast iron, and it isn't pretty. . . .
Old Magnet
Senior Member
Seems tear down and inspection was recommended early in the posts.
Also you need to get acquainted with the parts sources available through www.machinerytrader.com
Also you need to get acquainted with the parts sources available through www.machinerytrader.com
Entropy1
Well-Known Member
Just break it loose and start her up was also recommended early in the posts.
To recap - I'm looking at $1800 in piston/cylinders, $1000 for gaskets, and $1200 for injectors - and that's assuming my engine needs absolutely nothings else (no head work, crank work, clutch, bearings, injector-pump, etc).
I still would much rather procure & drop-in a running D318 engine. I will check out machinerytrader - to see what's available. Thanks for the tip.
To recap - I'm looking at $1800 in piston/cylinders, $1000 for gaskets, and $1200 for injectors - and that's assuming my engine needs absolutely nothings else (no head work, crank work, clutch, bearings, injector-pump, etc).
I still would much rather procure & drop-in a running D318 engine. I will check out machinerytrader - to see what's available. Thanks for the tip.
Entropy1
Well-Known Member
I've been pricing out D318 overhaul parts, to piece together a kit. It would appear that we've entered an era where D318 repair parts have become obsolete. The parts you are able to find are most likely from final-production runs, where the prices will reflect such $$$.
For example - a 671 overhaul kit (piston/cylinders, complete bearing set, full gasket set), costs $1300. Whereas one reputable vendor sells individual D318 bearings for over 100 bucks each.
It's becoming clear why the college diesel department gave up on fixing this grader. It wasn't for lack of capacity, or lack of skillsets - but most likely just a lack of parts-support. Granted that's pure speculation on my part, but probably pretty accurate nonetheless.
For example - a 671 overhaul kit (piston/cylinders, complete bearing set, full gasket set), costs $1300. Whereas one reputable vendor sells individual D318 bearings for over 100 bucks each.
It's becoming clear why the college diesel department gave up on fixing this grader. It wasn't for lack of capacity, or lack of skillsets - but most likely just a lack of parts-support. Granted that's pure speculation on my part, but probably pretty accurate nonetheless.
Entropy1
Well-Known Member
Well, I thought I found my engine. D6 Dozer, seller is unsure of the year. This engine is a runner. I asked for pictures (attached) to be sure. It doesn't look like the D318 that's in my grader. I don't have the required reference to decode the 9K serial number. I'm assuming this is the wrong engine. The intake and exhaust manifold configurations are completely different. Lots of things look completely different.
Edit - looking at the old pictures, I think this is a D4600, implying it's a pre 1947 D6 dozer. . . . ?
Edit - looking at the old pictures, I think this is a D4600, implying it's a pre 1947 D6 dozer. . . . ?
Attachments
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FWD
Senior Member
It's an old engine for sure.
DWF
DWF
OzDozer
Senior Member
The engine in the D6 is out of an earlier model 9K series Cat grader, which model was built between 1938 and 1945 - and yes, you're correct, it's the earlier D4600 engine, not the D318.
The problem you have with an engine swap is ensuring you acquire the correct engine for your grader.
I don't see in any previous posts where it has been pinned down as to whether your grader is fitted with an oil master clutch or a dry master clutch.
The Cat oil master clutch appeared around 1954, and I don't currently have any information as to the Cat 12 serial number changeover to the oil master clutch.
The block is different on the Cat 12 oil master clutch models, because the grader engines used engine oil for the master clutch - unlike the Cat dozers, where the master clutch had its own separate oil supply and oil pump.
In 1954, the HP rating of the Cat 12 also went from 100HP to 115HP. I'd also have to research my literature to see if I can find the changeover serial number for that power upgrade, I don't have it at present.
The problem you have with an engine swap is ensuring you acquire the correct engine for your grader.
I don't see in any previous posts where it has been pinned down as to whether your grader is fitted with an oil master clutch or a dry master clutch.
The Cat oil master clutch appeared around 1954, and I don't currently have any information as to the Cat 12 serial number changeover to the oil master clutch.
The block is different on the Cat 12 oil master clutch models, because the grader engines used engine oil for the master clutch - unlike the Cat dozers, where the master clutch had its own separate oil supply and oil pump.
In 1954, the HP rating of the Cat 12 also went from 100HP to 115HP. I'd also have to research my literature to see if I can find the changeover serial number for that power upgrade, I don't have it at present.
OzDozer
Senior Member
O.K. I did some research and found the oil master clutch was fitted to graders from serial number 8T14782-up, in late 1954.
So that means your grader with a serial number of 8T14140 is fitted with the dry master clutch.
At the same serial number as the oil master clutch fitment, the engine HP was boosted to an advertised 115HP, from the previous 100HP.
Interestingly, Cat were cheating a bit here on the claimed HP (I think there was a HP race on with other manufacturers at that time, especially Allis Chalmers and IH) - and the Rack Setting book gives two HP settings - one with fan, and one without fan.
I believe this "HP without fan" was an advertising stunt started by Allis-Chalmers, so Cat appears to have followed them.
According to the Rack Setting book, the D318 up to 8T14781 produced 100HP with fan, and 109HP without fan.
From 8T14782, the D318 produced 110HP with fan and 119HP without fan. So Cats advertised "115HP" upgrade was a figure between the HP with fan, and the HP without fan! - whereas previously, the advertised HP was with fan!
So that means your grader with a serial number of 8T14140 is fitted with the dry master clutch.
At the same serial number as the oil master clutch fitment, the engine HP was boosted to an advertised 115HP, from the previous 100HP.
Interestingly, Cat were cheating a bit here on the claimed HP (I think there was a HP race on with other manufacturers at that time, especially Allis Chalmers and IH) - and the Rack Setting book gives two HP settings - one with fan, and one without fan.
I believe this "HP without fan" was an advertising stunt started by Allis-Chalmers, so Cat appears to have followed them.
According to the Rack Setting book, the D318 up to 8T14781 produced 100HP with fan, and 109HP without fan.
From 8T14782, the D318 produced 110HP with fan and 119HP without fan. So Cats advertised "115HP" upgrade was a figure between the HP with fan, and the HP without fan! - whereas previously, the advertised HP was with fan!
Clawed Backster
Senior Member
I bought an old Ford backhoe a few years ago that had the can over the exhaust. One of the first things I did was get a tink-tink flapper, because I knew that I would eventually forget the can.
.RC.
Senior Member
wrong thread.
Clawed Backster
Senior Member
CAT 12 99E GRADER - heavy equipment - by owner - sale - craigslist
CAT 12 99E GRADER, 12' MOLD BOARD (BLADE) WITH NEW CUTTING EDGE, RIPPERS, CAT DIESEL. SERIAL # 99E10476.. $6,995.00 LOCATED IN GRANTS PASS,OR CALL 541 956 971 SEVEN OR 541 916 542 EIGHT CAT GRADER,...
medford.craigslist.org
Clawed Backster
Senior Member
That is only about 10 miles from me, and I'd like to have it, but the little woman thinks that I am limited out on toys.
Entropy1
Well-Known Member
In hindsight I should've purchased a running CAT 12 grader. I didn't anticipate many of the rebuild parts being discontinued for the D318, and the still-available D318 engine parts being so expensive.
OzDozer
Senior Member
Entropy1, have you got the engine apart to see what the internal damage was actually like?
Did you check with IPD as to what engine parts and gaskets they can supply for the D318 engine?
This company below also list parts for the D318, although I don't see any gaskets in their list.
Bulldog Kits list a gasket kit available for the D318. I suspect it's a Chinese gasket set, but it's likely to be good enough for your planned use.
Did you check with IPD as to what engine parts and gaskets they can supply for the D318 engine?
This company below also list parts for the D318, although I don't see any gaskets in their list.
Bulldog Kits list a gasket kit available for the D318. I suspect it's a Chinese gasket set, but it's likely to be good enough for your planned use.
CT-9M4752,08T,1,14781,(ES)-Supplement,D318,- - Bulldog | Demand the Brand
Quality Aftermarket Replacement Part for Bulldog Gasket Kits - Caterpillar - Engine (Cat Kit Numbers) - Motor Graders
www.bulldogkits.com
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Entropy1
Well-Known Member
The short answer to your question is no - I have not pulled the engine yet.
Plan A is to find/purchase a running D318 engine
Plan B is to adapt/repower with a 471 Detroit
For Plan A - I'm still searching for a reasonably priced D318
For Plan B - I just purchased a 24" chuck for my big lathe, so I can turn a custom flywheel - to adapt the CAT 12 clutch to the Detroit 471. I also recently picked up a 471 with SAE-1 bellhousing - which in the correct ballpark-size for adapting to the CAT-12 transmission. It's a runner - basically ready to go.
Right now, the only path that seems to be progressing is Plan B, although I am still actively searching for a D318 for Plan A
Plan A is to find/purchase a running D318 engine
Plan B is to adapt/repower with a 471 Detroit
For Plan A - I'm still searching for a reasonably priced D318
For Plan B - I just purchased a 24" chuck for my big lathe, so I can turn a custom flywheel - to adapt the CAT 12 clutch to the Detroit 471. I also recently picked up a 471 with SAE-1 bellhousing - which in the correct ballpark-size for adapting to the CAT-12 transmission. It's a runner - basically ready to go.
Right now, the only path that seems to be progressing is Plan B, although I am still actively searching for a D318 for Plan A
Entropy1
Well-Known Member
What's sad is the previous owner forgot to cover the exhaust and destroyed the engine with rainwater.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
Why a 4-71 now? It's about as different as can be from the original Cat engine. I'm sure your neighbors would be thrilled... not.
oarwhat
Senior Member
4-71 my ears are ringing just hearing that.