I have a 71 case 580 with d188. When I bought it it would start and seemed like it was going to be fine with a little tlc. I drove it around my property a few times then it died.thought it possibly ran out of fuel even though I could see fuel in tank. After adding some fuel ,I pulled line at injector pump and fuel flow seemed to low. I bypassed stock ff with inline cheap ff. I have brand new battery,rebuilt starter,and good cables for power and ground hooked directly to starter as well as a hd jump pack hooked directly to starter. Most of the time when I try to start it, it seems to crank too slow and just puffs a little white smoke from exhaust. If I mess around enough it will sometimes start for 30 seconds at the longest and engine sounds noisier than it did before. trying to figure out the best route for diagnosis on this. not scared to rebuild the engine if I have to.Any advice from experience would be greatly appreciated. thx in advance
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case 580ck d188 slow cranking
- Thread starter John580CK
- Start date
Does it have coolant in the radiator? oil in the engine? what does the oil look like? any foam or condensation on the dipstick?
If all that is good, then we'll hope for now that the internals of the engine are good, and it's got two problems at the same time. Not at all unusual for an old tractor. Probably crud in the tank plugging something up between the tank and the filter. And a bad connection somewhere between the battery and the starter. Make up some test leads with an alligator clip on one end and see what the voltage is at the starter when cranking, then check each side positive and negative, then narrow it down from there.
If all that is good, then we'll hope for now that the internals of the engine are good, and it's got two problems at the same time. Not at all unusual for an old tractor. Probably crud in the tank plugging something up between the tank and the filter. And a bad connection somewhere between the battery and the starter. Make up some test leads with an alligator clip on one end and see what the voltage is at the starter when cranking, then check each side positive and negative, then narrow it down from there.
jimg984
Senior Member
check fuel retun line from injector pump to storage thank, needs to have a small flow back to fuel tank, also check the adapter fitting at the injector pump were the return line connects why would anyone pull the injector pump with out knowing what they doing,, timing, timing, timing.. hope you meant to say lift pump GOOD LUCK
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Eric a1cnc
Well-Known Member
He said he pulled the line at the injection pump.
I would clean the connections to the battery cables on both ends and especially the ground to the frame.
These are notoriously finicky about needing a pretty full tank to get primed if you run out. I saw fuel in the tank, is not good enough. There seems to need to be enough fuel in the tank to have the fuel coming out of the return line or you will have a hard time getting it going. Preferably fill it right up.
You NEED to replace the filters in the original Fuel filter. NOT bypass it with some cheap pos.
It would be a good idea to drain the sediment bowl on the fueltank.
Then, you need to bleed the air out of BOTH fuel filters and I like to bleed the line up to the pump. Make sure there are no air bubbles coming out. Then, if you have run it out of fuel, You need to bleed the injectors by Loosening the pressure fittings at the injectors and then turning the engine over in 20-30 second intervals until fuel comes out.
starting procedure in case you are not familiar
1) Give it full throttle, (Down on the throttle lever)
2) Turn key for no more than 20 seconds at a time. If it is puffing white smoke you know there is at least fuel getting through the injectors.
Hopefully at this point it will run.
If it still starts and runs for only 20-30 seconds remove the return line from the top of the fuel pump that goes to the tank and see if it keeps running. If it does you most likely will need the pump rebuilt soon.
I would clean the connections to the battery cables on both ends and especially the ground to the frame.
These are notoriously finicky about needing a pretty full tank to get primed if you run out. I saw fuel in the tank, is not good enough. There seems to need to be enough fuel in the tank to have the fuel coming out of the return line or you will have a hard time getting it going. Preferably fill it right up.
You NEED to replace the filters in the original Fuel filter. NOT bypass it with some cheap pos.
It would be a good idea to drain the sediment bowl on the fueltank.
Then, you need to bleed the air out of BOTH fuel filters and I like to bleed the line up to the pump. Make sure there are no air bubbles coming out. Then, if you have run it out of fuel, You need to bleed the injectors by Loosening the pressure fittings at the injectors and then turning the engine over in 20-30 second intervals until fuel comes out.
starting procedure in case you are not familiar
1) Give it full throttle, (Down on the throttle lever)
2) Turn key for no more than 20 seconds at a time. If it is puffing white smoke you know there is at least fuel getting through the injectors.
Hopefully at this point it will run.
If it still starts and runs for only 20-30 seconds remove the return line from the top of the fuel pump that goes to the tank and see if it keeps running. If it does you most likely will need the pump rebuilt soon.
Delmer:All fluids have been checked and are good. fuel flow was good with test filter.I replaced and/or checked complete starting system plus an hd jump pack hooked directly to starter. I am familiar with voltage drop tests
Jim:I will check that. only pulled fuel supply line to check for fuel at pump
Eric:thx for the info about full tank. starting system is new wired directly to starter plus jump pack on starter. PLan on replacing original filters or upgrade. cheap 1 was for test purposes.it will not crank for 20-30 seconds
Jim:I will check that. only pulled fuel supply line to check for fuel at pump
Eric:thx for the info about full tank. starting system is new wired directly to starter plus jump pack on starter. PLan on replacing original filters or upgrade. cheap 1 was for test purposes.it will not crank for 20-30 seconds
398370
Well-Known Member
Looks like got basics covered. Would check to see if hydraulics is dragging engine down during cranking. Also would change engine oil filter split old one and look for metal
It should crank for 20 seconds easy. I'd try switching the battery with one you know is good, if it still cranks slow, what's the cranking voltage at the starter and at the battery? If they're equally low, then the starter is dragging. Rebuilt doesn't mean much if junk parts were used.
Delmer: I know. Battery is brand new plus a jump pack that will start a dead big block by itself.I drove 40 miles to the most reputable starter rebuild shop around and spent $150 on all new internals.I will take voltage drop test results and report back. How are the injectors on these things? wondering if pop pressure is too low which makes it spray fuel too early or constant drip.
Eric a1cnc
Well-Known Member
If it was running then just stopped injectors probably are not the issue.
Maybe take a video and post it. We who are familiar with how they sound and start might see or hear something
Maybe take a video and post it. We who are familiar with how they sound and start might see or hear something
Tinkerer
Senior Member
I would try a putting a new or rebuilt starter in it.
There is no reason a 188 with very many hours on it should crank slowly.
Unless that motor spins quickly you are doomed to starting issues. IMHO !
There is no reason a 188 with very many hours on it should crank slowly.
Unless that motor spins quickly you are doomed to starting issues. IMHO !
melben
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
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- Location
- Williamsport, Pa
- Occupation
- Retired 50 Yrs with Case dealership
Is there any possibility that one of the high pressure quick couplers to the hoe are disconnected or partially so the pump has to pump against high pressure. That causes major slow cranking issues always!
I replaced the entire starting system. did you read the previous comments?
wouldn't that cause a leak at said connection? It was running and all hydraulics working.all cylinders leak a bit except the 1 I rebuilt. I have considered this and am trying to figure out a way to rule this out. disconnecting pump from engine doesn't look practical for an easy test.
I had a few minutes for it today,so I pulled oil filter to check for metal/debri indicating internal problem. to my suprise the oil filter was almost empty with no sign of contamination. Not sure why it would not be full since it's at the bottom of the system.Also drained oil to check for same thing.looked good besides 2 or 3 drips of water when I first pulled plug. oil was not milky after running it for a while
Eric a1cnc
Well-Known Member
To isolate at least the backhoe section, you can unplug the 2 connectors going to the hoe and connect them together.
It is possible for the connectors to not be fully seated and not leak. Doesn't seem possible but, I have seen it.
It is possible for the connectors to not be fully seated and not leak. Doesn't seem possible but, I have seen it.
ANK YOU. I have considered removing back hoe until I have the rest of tractor and loadeer in decent working order. when I looked for the line described in manual,I didn't see quick connects. has screw in styleTH