it slips the belt when I turn fan(another issue that needs addressed(belt too long) but I wouldn't expect to be able to turn this motor over by hand. I'm think ing you are right about disconnecting hyd sys just to verify. with it disconnected I should be able to get a tool on crank to feel it....thx
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case 580ck d188 slow cranking
- Thread starter John580CK
- Start date
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
It’s good to have the special 1/2” socket tor rotating the engine, you could then feel if the engine is unusually tight or has some resistance besides the compression bumps.
If it ran for 10 minutes and didn’t die on its own but you shut it off, then I’d agree with you that the fuel system is at least functional.
If you put your good , fully charged jumper pack directly on the starter and it cranks in a weak way and too slowly to start, then there is a very good chance that the starter is the problem in spite of the fact that it was rebuilt with new internals. We are talking here about electricity and humans, these are often the source of errors. All’s it takes is one bad connection or dirty solder joint on your starter’s 4 brush leads or other internal connections (that were just redone) and it’s going to be weak and under powered. You have to somehow verify that your starter is in fact as good as you think it is.
Can you get the rebuilder to test it or buy a cheap one online that can be returned, these will work well enough to do a test and compare to your rebuilt one.
If it ran for 10 minutes and didn’t die on its own but you shut it off, then I’d agree with you that the fuel system is at least functional.
If you put your good , fully charged jumper pack directly on the starter and it cranks in a weak way and too slowly to start, then there is a very good chance that the starter is the problem in spite of the fact that it was rebuilt with new internals. We are talking here about electricity and humans, these are often the source of errors. All’s it takes is one bad connection or dirty solder joint on your starter’s 4 brush leads or other internal connections (that were just redone) and it’s going to be weak and under powered. You have to somehow verify that your starter is in fact as good as you think it is.
Can you get the rebuilder to test it or buy a cheap one online that can be returned, these will work well enough to do a test and compare to your rebuilt one.
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Tinkerer
Senior Member
I didn't mean to rotate it by hand. That is dangerous to do unless there is absolutely no doubt that the fuel shut off is fully engaged on a cable operated shut-off. I have to mention that because there are amateurs reading these threads that don't know that.
Just try rock it back and forth. Pushing or pulling on the fan belt sometimes increases the tension so that you can rock the crankshaft.
I encourage you to split the pump coupler if for no other than reason-to inspect the splines in it.
Just try rock it back and forth. Pushing or pulling on the fan belt sometimes increases the tension so that you can rock the crankshaft.
I encourage you to split the pump coupler if for no other than reason-to inspect the splines in it.
I agree and am looking for another 1
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
I recently got the this one via Amazon, seems pretty good $20, 3 day delivery, USA made.
Ohio Diesel Parts Engine Barring/Rotating Tool for 5.9L/6.7L Cummins B/C Series
Ohio Diesel Parts Engine Barring/Rotating Tool for 5.9L/6.7L Cummins B/C Series
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Will that work on a Case 188D ?
He could remove the starter and use a bar to turn it.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
You’re right, this socket won’t work on the Case g188d engine, Cummins only.
edgephoto
Senior Member
My money is on a bad starter. Buy one of the little Denso gear reduction ones. They are amazing.
I had a V12 that I was chasing slow cranking with, which was worse when hot. I tried everything including have a supposedly really good rebuild shop fix it. Put in one of the Nippendenso starters and the thing cranked fast and fired nearly instantly. Was worth every penny. Wish I did that before trying to be cheap and rebuild my original Delco starter.
I had a V12 that I was chasing slow cranking with, which was worse when hot. I tried everything including have a supposedly really good rebuild shop fix it. Put in one of the Nippendenso starters and the thing cranked fast and fired nearly instantly. Was worth every penny. Wish I did that before trying to be cheap and rebuild my original Delco starter.
do you have a link?
edgephoto
Senior Member
No I do not. Someone here posted a link to one a while back. If you know the Case part number you can Google around and find them. Search for "Case Gear Reduction Starter".
Glad to help track one down if you know the Case part number.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
I have been searching using those terms and others. I've found possibly the right one but not sure because description is unclear and pics are generic.The delco number on starter motor is 1109143. I have a pdf parts catalog that I still need to check for case #
Tinkerer
Senior Member
A gear reduction starter will generate a lot more torque that your OEM Delco-Remy will.
But, someone correct me if I am wrong ---- It will not increase the cranking speed of the engine.
My money would be on determining why the OEM starter won't spin it faster than it does. There has to be an underlying cause of the slow crank speeds.
It could be a problem in the fuel injection pump.
But, someone correct me if I am wrong ---- It will not increase the cranking speed of the engine.
My money would be on determining why the OEM starter won't spin it faster than it does. There has to be an underlying cause of the slow crank speeds.
It could be a problem in the fuel injection pump.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
The bets are lining up !
Hydraulic pump- (this is the easiest theory of all to test, can you let us know how it goes when the hydraulic coupling is disconnected?)
Weak starter - (get a new starter $100 online and see if that makes a difference)
Injection pump - ( this is the most difficult of the 3 theories to test for and since the engine will start and run, as you said earlier, I’d suspect it’s the least likely)
Hydraulic pump- (this is the easiest theory of all to test, can you let us know how it goes when the hydraulic coupling is disconnected?)
Weak starter - (get a new starter $100 online and see if that makes a difference)
Injection pump - ( this is the most difficult of the 3 theories to test for and since the engine will start and run, as you said earlier, I’d suspect it’s the least likely)
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Right on BE !
Pull the starter and bar the flywheel. You will know immediately if it turns free.
If it does it is a starter issue.
If it doesn't -- Hydraulic pump problem, spun a bearing , rod or main, not likely an IP problem. Never say never tho.
Pull the starter and bar the flywheel. You will know immediately if it turns free.
If it does it is a starter issue.
If it doesn't -- Hydraulic pump problem, spun a bearing , rod or main, not likely an IP problem. Never say never tho.
398370
Well-Known Member
Throw gauge on hydraulic pump crank engine see how high it goes I don’t know what standby pressure should be but I’m sure some one here does.
Coy Lancaster
Senior Member
Check the hyd. couplings at the backhoe to see if either one has come apart, disconnect the quick couplers and bypass the backhoe by connecting the lines together for hyd. pump flow.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
John ? The crowd is forming and getting anxious, money is on the table ....we need to hear something soon !
edgephoto
Senior Member
Can the hydraulic pump be decoupled from the engine easily? On my Cat I can remove a few bolts and the pump is disconnected.
A replacement starter will make it crank faster if the starter is the issue. I could have windings that are shorted leading to less power output. Most rebuilding shops just replace brushes and clean everything. They might clean up any wear from the brushes but beyond that they do nothing but clean and paint it.
If you are going to buy a replacement starter I would pay the premium and get a gear reduction unit. You will be glad you did.
A replacement starter will make it crank faster if the starter is the issue. I could have windings that are shorted leading to less power output. Most rebuilding shops just replace brushes and clean everything. They might clean up any wear from the brushes but beyond that they do nothing but clean and paint it.
If you are going to buy a replacement starter I would pay the premium and get a gear reduction unit. You will be glad you did.