Case 580c Front Left Kingpin - Needle Bearing

[Coytee]

I'm busy working today (though from home) but am still busy... so haven't read everything.

Disclaimer: Presuming I'm seeing it correctly and interpreting your process correctly, then "me personally" gets nervous with the hydraulic setup. I personally would be very nervous that I'd bend, ever so slightly, one of those ears that hold the pin and cause a greater issue. For all I know, they may be strong enough to withstand that pressure....and that's my point, I don't know therefore I get nervous as I see it as a potential problem.

I'd probably be measuring for thickness to see if I could cut with a sawzall, grinder.... the upper and lower pin so the knuckle can come out. Now there's no way to bend the ears that hold it and you can man handle it.

One of my bearings was worn enough that I had plenty of room to get a cutoff wheel in there (verses a sawzall) and got it cut.
Notice I don't say anything about flames.....that's because I don't know anything about them and if they'd work or damage something else (note that the cutoff wheel or sawzall can damage something else)

 

[Tinkerer]

I punctured an eye many years ago using a sledge hammer and pounding on a pin.
I also would cut the pin if it were mine. Cutting torch would be my choice.
Burning the core out would be my last choice on MD's pin.
The log splitter looks scary to me.
I would be hiding behind a tree if I were there.

 

[MD_Tractor_85]

Ok, thanks for the input guys. I haven't used the log splitter setup, was just positioning it to see if it might work. It does look scary, and I don't want to do anything foolish. I have been trying to avoid cutting the pin, simply because it seemed like an insane amount of work... But sounds like that is what a lot of you are recommending.

 

[Vetech63]

I have done many of these. The torch method, as mentioned above, is the most efficient.

 

[MD_Tractor_85]

Thanks Vetech63. Just to confirm: when you say it is the best method, are you referring to using a torch to cut entirely thru the pin ? So that I can then remove the entire assembly (seized pin & spindle) and take that entire assembly to a machine shop with a heavy duty hydraulic press ?
Thanks again

 

[Vetech63]

Thanks Vetech63. Just to confirm: when you say it is the best method, are you referring to using a torch to cut entirely thru the pin ? So that I can then remove the entire assembly (seized pin & spindle) and take that entire assembly to a machine shop with a heavy duty hydraulic press ?
Thanks again

Exactly that my friend.

 

[MD_Tractor_85]

Ok, thank you for confirming. Sounds like that seems to be a consensus amongst several here with a lot more experience than I have. I am very appreciative for all who have chimed in and offered input. Will update with pictures after I cut it free.
Any predictions on what size hydraulic press will be needed to press the pin out ?

 

[MD_Tractor_85]

This video was where my idea originally came from to try and press it out with heat:

(not sure how to create a clickable link here...?)

Coytee... I understand your concern about bending one of those 'ears' (what is the proper term for those ? The holes on the axle that house the bearings and kingpin) But if you look at my picture, and the same thing they did in this linked video... Doesn't it appear that all of the force from the hydraulic press is directed back 'into itself' ? Meaning... How could that top ear possibly bend up ? THe force of the bottle jack would have to be strong enough that it would bend the entire opposite end of the log splitter (the end with the wedge on it).

 

[Coytee]

Not seeing it, I don't know what you have to push or support on. You can't push on both sides of the pin as you negate your pressure so you have to butt up against something.

If you look at my picture, the way it was setup, with no flanges I might add, all the pressure was on the pin verses axle. The axle was pretty beefy without the way the flanges stick out.

Might hold up fine for all I know. I'm just a chicken-pants since I don't have what might be considered the proper tools.

 

[Tinkerer]

Will update with pictures after I cut it free.
Any predictions on what size hydraulic press will be needed to press the pin out ?

In the video they had a 12 ton Harbor Freight press. $169.99.
I have a 20 ton press (not a HF).
Be sure to post pictures, they will help others reading this thread in the future looking for help.

 

[MD_Tractor_85]

Status Update: Heeded everyone's advice.. Finally found time to cut the pin above & below. Angle Grinder with metal disc did 98% of the work. Will now take to a machine shop with proper press to press it out properly. Thanks again for all of the suggestions thus far.

 

[alrman]

Did one of these yesterday on a 580k.
5hr done & dusted! Including a return trip of 200km travel.
6 good hits of 12lb hammer & the game was over! Got lucky again

 

[MD_Tractor_85]

Statue Update with Pictures & Questions:
The Good: Had the old seized pin pressed out at Amish machine Shop. Was a thing of beauty to watch. Had the put the torch on it for a couple mins whilst underneath a behemoth press. Glad I didn't try myself.
The Bad: Went to re-assemble, and stumbled on a few issues.
First is more of a question: Picture below: There is a small hole in the backside of the spindle knuckle.. too small for a zerk, and not threaded.. Is that supposed to be a 'pressure exit' hole for when pumping in grease ? What is that hole for ?
I hate the thought of having any places for moisture to enter the freshly cleaned system.


Second: After reassembling, it appears there is quite a bit more space now in between the spindle knuckle and the yokes, where the needle bearing sits. Like, Room for about 6-8 ,more of those washers kinda space (I currently have only 1 washer in between the spindle knuckle and the lower yoke).
Such that the upper needle bearing is exposed. Pictures below:


Any advice on remedy ? It can't be good for the bearing, or entire system. All I can think of is to try and order about 1 dozen of those washers and add as many as necessary to the bottom (between the lower yoke and spindle knuckle) until it takes that extra space out of the equation..
Any thoughts and feedback are welcomed as usual.
Thanks.

 

[alrman]

1) The Hole - was used as a lathe centre support when the spindle was first made/machined in the factory. - will be a good idea to plug that with some silicone or epoxy liquid metal.
2) There seems to be some wear on the top side of the spindle where the thrust race sits - due to either this last bearing collapse or a previous one. You probably have no choice than to fill the gap with spacers - but they will need to go UNDER the spindle - on the lower side.
Another option is to weld the top face & machine it flat.

Because there is a big gap, might be an idea to measure the gap & have a single spacer/washer fabricated. If the spacer is put in the upper location it will eventually get worn out from carrying the weight of the machine.

The way the upper torrington bearing is visible in pic 3&4 is not right.... it should be flush with the bottom of the upper bore?? Maybe worn as well??

 

[MD_Tractor_85]

Thanks Alrman. I will plug that little hole on the backside.

Agreed, the upper needle bearing is not correct. But adding the right amount of washers, and/or the right size single washer...should push that bearing up flush inside the bore.
I wouldn't know where to begin to have a correct thickness single washer fabricated.. Anybody have any leads for that ?

 

[Tinkerer]

I have made a few spacers with a couple of hole saws, and a piece of steel flat stock thicker than needed.
I used a piece of wood with two screws in it, inserted to the ID of the spacer to be able to sand them down on a vice held belt sander.
I frequently checked the spacer with a micrometer to ensure it was being sanded evenly.
It should be easy to make one for your kingpin gap.
Unfortunately it needs to be made before the pins are pressed in.

 

[alrman]

If the upper bearing has slid down to meet the thrust bearing, that indicates that it is loose & that is not going to give your repair any longevity.
Did the upper & lower bores for the torrington bearings retain their smooth machined finish? Or did the old king pin gouge them a little?
The Amish "machine shop" should be able to make your washer?

 

[MD_Tractor_85]

Alrman - yes, the bore is probably worn down a bit.. The torrington bearings go in & out with relative ease.. Is there anything I can do to increase longevity ? This fix has been a good bit of work already.. I would hate to see it be all for not.
Latest issue - I think I added too many washers. Such that I cannot get the upper snap ring back in place..

 

[Vetech63]

You will need the snap ring to retain that cap. The only thing I'm concerned with is it looks like the thrust bearing isn't making good contact all the way around its perimeter. It looks heavily loaded to the inside which will fail it sooner than later. In your pic I believe I see a small gap to the wheel side of the thrust bearing.

 

[alrman]

Have you tried fitting the circlip & then tapping down on it? The cap could be held higher than the circlip groove because of the oring needing to be squashed down a little.
OR the lower side of the upper bearing bore is worn & there are too many washers fitted - pushing the torrington too high in the bore - not leaving enough space for the circlip.

Re the tightness of the torrington bearings - they should be a press fit - quite firm. If the bores are damaged they need welding & machining to make them true again.
If there is any gap between the bearing case & the parent bore in the axle - the bearings WILL fail in just a few hours of operation.
I have performed many "in the field" repairs to these axles by welding & grinding the bores & installing steel bushings instead of the torrington bearings.
The steel bushings will tolerate some bore irregularity, whereas the torrington bearings will not.

In reality about your repair - it depends on how much use the machine will actually get each year.
Technically speaking, it's all lubed up now, & if it fails again in a few years, (maybe sooner) it will all come apart much easier & you can deal with it then.

Also, in pic #3 why is the cotter pin hole welded up??