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Case 450 3056051

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Hey coy , I see the forward reverse oil seal seems pretty easy to change but how will I know if it is leaking ? Wouldn’t I see oil coming out of that pto thing on that you take off to get to the seal ?
Also , I don’t know why they are calling me a senior member , I don’t know **** . Lol .
 

Coy Lancaster

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,976
Location
Arkansas
Occupation
service tech
The only real way is to remove the cap and physically check them. The ring will have little clips on them to hold together. Check the cap for any deep grooves and your shaft for damage also. The gaskets are shims so don’t loose any. You can reuse with some permatex type sealer.
 
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mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
The only real way is to remove the cap and physically check them. The ring will have little clips on them to hold together. Check the cap for any deep grooves and your shaft for damage also. The gaskets are shims so don’t loose any. You can reuse with some permatex type sealer.
The only real way is to remove the cap and physically check them. The ring will have little clips on them to hold together. Check the cap for any deep grooves and your shaft for damage also. The gaskets are shims so don’t loose any. You can reuse with some permatex type sealer.
Ok I can do that but by removing the cap wouldn’t it be evident if something was leaking ?
 

Bill Edwards

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
58
Location
UK
I think I'd be looking at the charge pump side of things before going in any further - check you've got an oil supply rather than looking into all the various ways that oil could be leaking, that seems to be working at the problem from the wrong end.

If you remove the outlet pipe from the charge pump - or pull out the pressure filter, same effect - and start the engine on tickover have you got a lot of oil being pumped out? From your description so far I'm wondering if your pump is pumping anything as it sounds like it's not drawing oil, but I could be misunderstanding your description.

If it's not pumping oil out then your problem is with the pump or suction line and there's no point looking downstream of the problem. If it does pump oil out then really a flow test would be the best next step but I do understand that flowmeters aren't cheap and dealers aren't always cheap either, so start with what you can check yourself first.
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
I think I'd be looking at the charge pump side of things before going in any further - check you've got an oil supply rather than looking into all the various ways that oil could be leaking, that seems to be working at the problem from the wrong end.

If you remove the outlet pipe from the charge pump - or pull out the pressure filter, same effect - and start the engine on tickover have you got a lot of oil being pumped out? From your description so far I'm wondering if your pump is pumping anything as it sounds like it's not drawing oil, but I could be misunderstanding your description.

If it's not pumping oil out then your problem is with the pump or suction line and there's no point looking downstream of the problem. If it does pump oil out then really a flow test would be the best next step but I do understand that flowmeters aren't cheap and dealers aren't always cheap either, so start with what you can check yourself first.
Ok I finally got all the mud off of her and got the front belly pan off . I wanted to check the pressure regulator and pressure relief valve . Both were stuck up in there . Got the pistons out so I’m going to put it back together tomorrow . Drained the trans fluid . It was nasty some how from getting stuck in the mud . I think it seeped through into the suction hose . Anyway sucked everything out with a wet vac and cleaned everything up so tomorrow I’ll try it again . If I got nothing I’m going to have to go for the pump . 800.00 . Is it possible that the pump wasn’t sucking because the pressure and relief valve were both stuck and not moving freely ?
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Ok I finally got all the mud off of her and got the front belly pan off . I wanted to check the pressure regulator and pressure relief valve . Both were stuck up in there . Got the pistons out so I’m going to put it back together tomorrow . Drained the trans fluid . It was nasty some how from getting stuck in the mud . I think it seeped through into the suction hose . Anyway sucked everything out with a wet vac and cleaned everything up so tomorrow I’ll try it again . If I got nothing I’m going to have to go for the pump . 800.00 . Is it possible that the pump wasn’t sucking because the pressure and relief valve were both stuck and not moving freely ?
Bill I just wanted to say I defiantly think your right about the pump and I will do what you said . Since I got crap in the oil some how from being stuck I just wanted to check and clean the things I can get at . I left a message with that place you told me to check with so I should get a price tomorrow . The cheapest I’ve found so far is with Broken Tractor . 725.00 plus 17.00 shipping
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Bill I just wanted to say I defiantly think your right about the pump and I will do what you said . Since I got crap in the oil some how from being stuck I just wanted to check and clean the things I can get at . I left a message with that place you told me to check with so I should get a price tomorrow . The cheapest I’ve found so far is with Broken Tractor . 725.00 plus 17.00 shipping
Just so you know I got stuck right up to the engine . Should have left it alone right away but I made it worse by trying to get out .
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Just so you know I got stuck right up to the engine . Should have left it alone right away but I made it worse by trying to get out .
I got stuck in a tree root hole and I shouldn’t even been working it in the mud . I always learn the hard way .
 

Bill Edwards

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
58
Location
UK
I really would start by pulling the outlet pipe from the pump or removing the trans filter and starting the engine. If it gushes oil out like it should go from there, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's producing nothing then you know more or less where the problem is.
Crude method and potentially messy, but quick and easy to get started.
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
I really would start by pulling the outlet pipe from the pump or removing the trans filter and starting the engine. If it gushes oil out like it should go from there, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's producing nothing then you know more or less where the problem is.
Crude method and potentially messy, but quick and easy to get started.
I did that on day one. It’s not pumping . I told you I brought it home , took it apart , put new o rings and seal in it . Gears look perfect and body shows no wear still doesn’t work . I’ve been trying to see if there is something restricting the flow . Anyway I give up . Gonna have to get a new pump I guess . It will cost me 300 to get towed out of the woods 100. To rent a trailer , 300 for a flow test and another 100 to get back to the land and of coarse gas . Might as well just take my chance with the pump . If it’s not the pump , then it’s going to be a ten thousand dollar lawn ornament cause I don’t have thousands to get into the transmission
 

Bill Edwards

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
58
Location
UK
I did that on day one. It’s not pumping . I told you I brought it home , took it apart , put new o rings and seal in it . Gears look perfect and body shows no wear still doesn’t work . I’ve been trying to see if there is something restricting the flow . Anyway I give up . Gonna have to get a new pump I guess . It will cost me 300 to get towed out of the woods 100. To rent a trailer , 300 for a flow test and another 100 to get back to the land and of coarse gas . Might as well just take my chance with the pump . If it’s not the pump , then it’s going to be a ten thousand dollar lawn ornament cause I don’t have thousands to get into the transmission

Well if there's absolutely nothing coming out of the pump then that confirms that there is no point in looking at anything else in the transmission at the moment.

The only possible reasons for the pump not giving any oil are:
Bad pump
Pump not turning
Suction line issue

Just to double check, if you take a piece of suitable hose attached to the pump inlet, hold/tie it up and pour oil into it and start the engine, you get nothing going through the pump? It seems unlikely that it would flow nothing at all with no pressure - usually a worn pump will produce something when there's no pressure - but you can't rule anything out.
I know it may sound silly, but is the pump definitely being turned? No stripped gears or anything daft?
If it's turning and produces nothing and the suction side of things isn't the issue then it leaves only the pump.
 

mcprp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
404
Location
rochester, new york
Well if there's absolutely nothing coming out of the pump then that confirms that there is no point in looking at anything else in the transmission at the moment.

The only possible reasons for the pump not giving any oil are:
Bad pump
Pump not turning
Suction line issue

Just to double check, if you take a piece of suitable hose attached to the pump inlet, hold/tie it up and pour oil into it and start the engine, you get nothing going through the pump? It seems unlikely that it would flow nothing at all with no pressure - usually a worn pump will produce something when there's no pressure - but you can't rule anything out.
I know it may sound silly, but is the pump definitely being turned? No stripped gears or anything daft?
If it's turning and produces nothing and the suction side of things isn't the issue then it leaves only the pump.
Yeah , I took the front of it off just to see if it’s turning . It’s defiantly turning . It just amazes me that the dozer pressure shut down instantly when I was backing up . Everything just instantly stopped working . Then I saw transmission oil on the ground , a lot ! Then I saw where it was coming from . Driveshaft seal going into the tranny . Fixed it ! Still no pressure . I didn’t have any trouble vacuuming the oil out of the tranny from the suction hose , sucked up every drop all eight gallons . I’m going to buy a pump but I have one question that I hope you can answer , someone told me to use a compressor and pump air into the tranny through the fill spout . I drilled a hole through a rubber grommet and pumped air into it . I couldn’t get any pressure at all
 
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