C7T Treefarmer ?

[willie59]

Ok, I'll take a stab at this. Sounds like the tranny and converter share oil. Here's my thoughts of how it works. Suction line on side of tranny goes to left side of pump on rear of coverter, that's what we call a "charge pump". The converter doesn't have the ability to draw oil to itself, it has to have oil fed to it under pressure. Oil leaves the charge pump, line on right side of pump, and goes to filter. Oil leaves filter and goes to pressure regulating valve mounted on coverter housing. Two other lines are connected to this chamber on the valve that shares the oil coming from filter. One line goes to pressure gauge on dash to monitor system pressure, the other line goes to transmission control valve to provide pressurised oil to engage fwd and rev clutch packs. Pressure is developed by the spring and cap you described going into the bottom of the 1" port of the pressure regulating valve when you removed valve. Once enough pressure is developed by charge pump, it overcomes the pressure of the spring and it unseats the "cap" or "piston". This also serves as a back flow valve for the conveter. Oil then flows through this port to feed converter via internal piping. Once it's done it's work inside the converter, the oil comes out of converter and goes, via internal piping, to fitting on lower right of coverter housing. Heated oil from coverter goes to engine coolant heat exchanger, then leaves heat exchanger and goes back to sump of transmission to start the flow cycle over again. The 3/4 line on lower left corner of convertor housing and goes back to bottom of tranny is a drain line to drain internal leakage of oil from convertor back to tranny. That's pretty much the way I read it. One question I have, when you removed the pressure regulating valve, you mentioned the 1" port that the spring and piston goes into. Is there another port or hole on the bottom of the valve beside the one you mentioned?

 

[Autocar]

Yes there is another hole about centered thats a inch , plus a hole about the size of a 22 caliber casing. You guys amaze me ! Thanks for all the info,I believe I am going to try and suck all the oil out of the converter housing . Change the filter again and then run it again on my next job and see how things work out. Thanks again for all the help Bill

 

[willie59]

Yes there is another hole about centered thats a inch , plus a hole about the size of a 22 caliber casing.

Ahhh, that's what I thought. Then I must ammend my previous post. Pressure is developed using two things; 1) the piston and spring assy you described previously. Once sufficient pressure is achieved it unseats the piston and allows oil to flow to converter. It also serves as a backflow preventer when converter is under load. And 2) by the spool/spring assembly inside the valve body. You described it previously as a chrome rod with a spring on one end. This is the pressure regulating spool. The charge pump can deliver more oil than is needed by the converter. Pressure is developed by the resistance of the spring under the valve body. Any excessive oil/pressure shifts the pressure regulating spool and allows oil to escape through the other 1" hole in the bottom of the valve body. This oil drains back into the sump of the converter housing. The 22 cal size hole is probably a vent for the spring side of the spool preventing spool leakage oil from getting trapped in the spring chamber and affecting spool movement. The movement of this spool is what maintains a uniform pressure on the system. As dumped oil fills the coverter housing, it drains back to the transmission sump via hose on lower left of converter housing. Therefore, you shouldn't have to "add oil" to the converter housing. Oil level is maintained at the transmission.

 

[Autocar]

I just can't get that into my head ! I still think there is no oil mixing between the transmission and the torkconverter. I pressured wash the engine and engine compartment and left it run for a hour and the transmission level was a little low . What your saying is when the transmission level is full the torkconverter will be also ? Just don't understand that .

 

[willie59]

Keep in mind I do not know your setup. I'm just working through the typical logic of what oil does in these units given the connections/hoses you describe.

Oil in the torque converter: Within the housing of the torque converter, the converter, itself, requires no oil within the housing. It only needs oil flowing through the inside of the converter, through the internal turbines to do it's work. Then it flows back out of coverter to wherever, to be delivered through converter again. It requires a constant flow of oil through the inside of the converter. Oustide the converter body, within the converter housing, it requires no oil. But the bearings and gears that drive the charge pump and converter output shaft require lubrication. You don't need a housing full of oil to achieve that, just enough in the sump of converter housing to lube parts is all that is required. Excess oil will flow out of pressure regulating valve and fill converter housing sump. The sump will fill until the oil reaches the level of that fitting on lower left of converter housing with the 3/4 hose attached to it. That hose returns sump oil back to tranny sump. That "sump drain" fitting maintains a specific level of oil in the converter housing sump. Just like an overflow pipe does in a fishing pond. The converter housing oil level maintains itself. All you have to maintain is the level in the tranny.

 

[Autocar]

Ok if I understand what your saying, if my transmission level says full then the torkconverter is ok ? If thats the case where did the four gallions go that I poured in the hole that is on the side of the torkeconverter ? It makes some sence because it was a H of a job to get to the plug let alone pour oil into it. Just by chance do you have any idea where a guy could find a operater's manual for one ? Thanks again for all your help. After thinking about what you have told me probably three years ago I over filled the dang thing thinking that it need oil.

 

[John C.]

Do you have the make and model of the transmission or the info on any tags on the torque converter. As I recall back when those were built you could get any of three different transmission. Clark, Twin Disc and Allison, newer machines might have had a Funk transmission. The Clark and Twin Disc transmissions were mounted seperate from the torque converter. Even though the torque was seperate it still received the operating oil from the transmission. In the Allison the torque converter was inside the transmission case. I think AtcoEquip is pretty accurate in his explanation of what it sounds like you have. A photo would help a lot.

As I recall all those units had two 1/8" pipe plugs on the side of the main case of the transmission. You checked the oil with the engine running in neutral at low idle. Oil should come out of the lower plug and not out of the upper plug when the lever is correct. As I recall the Allisons always had a dipstick.

Does your transmission have a dipstick? Are you checking the level with the engine running or shut down? Granted four gallons is a lot of oil in those units, but you might have just overfilled the unit and been able to run till now not knowing any difference.

 

[Autocar]

Yes the transmission dose have a dip stick. It is a Clark Model R28328-6 and yes I check the oil in it after it warms up while it idles. Atcoequip tells me that [ This is how I think he tells me ] that the oil is shared ,but the very first time I had a problm with it the oil was very dark and the transmission oil is as clear as if I poured it in yesturday. But tracing lines Atcoquip translation is right but like I told him I just can't get it though my head with the oil being so different in colors. Frustrating but at the same time I get a kick trying to figure it out. I agree a picture is worth a thousand words but I can never figure out how to that eather. Happy New Year !

 

[willie59]

Ahh, finally got some help from John C. Seems my buddy Phil has left me here all alone. :falldownlaugh

Hi Phil. :waving

Hey John, he thinks the coverter is a C2000 Clark. Here's a PDF of one.

http://www.dana.com/offhighway_systems/products/C2000 Torque Converter Spec.pdf

Hey Autocar, you got pics on your computer and just don't know how to post them here?

 

[Autocar]

No pictures on the computer can't seem to get them any farther then Photo Bucket. com. My wife is the computer whise in our family and she is stumped also on the picture transfer.

 

[willie59]

No pictures on the computer can't seem to get them any farther then Photo Bucket. com. My wife is the computer whise in our family and she is stumped also on the picture transfer.

Whoa, slow down dude. If you have pics, whether from digital camera of cell phone camera, download them to your computer, in "My Documents" or "My Pictures". Once you have them saved in your computer, you can upload them to the forum on one of your posts.

Like this

 

[John C.]

ATCOEQUIP,
In think you solved the issue with that brochure. It says the converter housing is dry. Apparently there wasn't supposed to be any oil in the converter housing at all.

Autocar, now you need to find a way to drain the oil out of that housing.

 

[willie59]

I saw that in the housing mounting spec John, SAE 3 (dry). Not sure what that means. I'm just thinking there has to be some oil in there to lubricate the drive gear and bearings for the charge pump drive. I could be wrong for sure, but every converter I've worked on that has pumps driving from the rear gear on converter body requires some lube for gears and bearings.

 

[Autocar]

More confused then ever now, this coming week I will call Baker Equipment and see if they have a on road repair man . Then have him come over here for a day and fill my ear . Well worth what it cost to fine out what going on. I believe they are the Franklin dealer in Ohio. Will let everyone know what I fine out. Bill

 

[Autocar]

JAN. 14 Treefarmer Update

Got some time today and drained the transmission fluid. I also found a five inch by two inch screen in the transmission that was about plugged [ looked like to me it was a hard carbon deposit over it ] if that makes any sence. Then I found a tag telling what kind of oil to use, here to find out I was putting the wrong kind in. I was using John Deer hydraulic oil and it called for Type A or C3 transmission fluid. Tomarrow I will cut the filter apart and see what it looks like inside. I was feeling pretty good till all the fluid drained out and I ran a magnet back on the floor of the transmission. I pulled out two pins that are a 1/4 inch by 1 3/4 inch. No wear marks, smooth as silk. They are magnitize not alot but you can fell it when you pull them apart or flip them end for end and they repell each other. I called the dealer to question the filter number and again they told me they couldn't help me because the tractor was built in Canada dosen't make alot of sence to me. Any thoughts from anyone as far as where the pins may have come from ?

 

[AmerIndependent]

What type of tractor is it?

Also, please post pictures of the cut filter when you can. We may be able to help isolate the source...

 

[Autocar]

It is a C7T Treefarmer Grapple Skidder with a 4/53 turbo and a clark power shift transmission. And forget the pictures I have never conquered that end of a computer yet !

 

[willie59]

Have no idea what the two pins are. I thought you were having someone come out and look the tranny and torque converter over?

 

[Steve Frazier]

Please keep all posts regarding this machine within this thread. It will make it easier for those helping you to follow the progress in one read. Thank you.

 

[bd797]

The two pins could simply be magnets that will attract any steel shavings that the transmission could produce. I have seen this alot in trannies. Most of the time there is some sort of indent on the bottom of the pan for the magnet to seat in but not always. They could just be free floating. The other thing is that the transmission fluid will be much thinner than the hydraulic oil, as well as have more lubricating properties to it. This could cause the transmission to run at much higher pressures than it was intended to do. I think you really should drain the entire system, replace that transmission filter and then refill to the correct fluid level. Hopefully you will be able to find the correct fluid specifications for it.