Truck Shop
Senior Member
I would run the vin # and find out the drum number and take your time looking for some drums. It probably is using a 5" shoe on a 16K axle. Either way I would do some shopping. IMO
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Buying older dump
- Thread starter suladas
- Start date
I will give the dealer a call and get the number and see. They assured me absolutely no one in the city has these, and $1000 is the best deal. They said they tried the dealer, greggs, fgi, fleetbrake, traction, a few more I can't remember. Covered all the places I know of.
RenoHuskerDu
Senior Member
When, in general, did trucks go electronic and start to suffer downtime caused by sensors etc? Are 94 Petes with L10. for example, still reliable?
Is it like excavators and tractors, the Tier N crap that came in 5 years ago? I bet it was earlier with road-going trucks that the emissions hoopla started.
Is it like excavators and tractors, the Tier N crap that came in 5 years ago? I bet it was earlier with road-going trucks that the emissions hoopla started.
DMiller
Senior Member
Pretty well started with Detroit Diesel mid 80s DDEC Detroit diesel electronic control
Moved to Cat next with the ‘E’ series truck engines early/mid 90s expanded to HPO High Pressure Oil operated systems most all suppliers late 90s with IH leading that to where we are now.
That stated is becoming problematic for knowledge on older engines as us Old Guys are getting out of the market and moat newbies have dealt with few to no mall mechanical engines.
The 94 L10 may very well be a M11 mistakenly listed as L10. Could be one of the last 10s built all mechanical as that is around where the M and N series began to where the ISX series is now.
Emissions controls of various forms go back to mid 70s.
Moved to Cat next with the ‘E’ series truck engines early/mid 90s expanded to HPO High Pressure Oil operated systems most all suppliers late 90s with IH leading that to where we are now.
That stated is becoming problematic for knowledge on older engines as us Old Guys are getting out of the market and moat newbies have dealt with few to no mall mechanical engines.
The 94 L10 may very well be a M11 mistakenly listed as L10. Could be one of the last 10s built all mechanical as that is around where the M and N series began to where the ISX series is now.
Emissions controls of various forms go back to mid 70s.
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
There have been sensors on them a very long time but the real bad down time started when they put the filters on them.
This is because they also programmed them to punish the driver/owner if the computer thought something was wrong. They are very sensitive to perceived problems but often they miss real problems that are developing.
This is because they also programmed them to punish the driver/owner if the computer thought something was wrong. They are very sensitive to perceived problems but often they miss real problems that are developing.
RenoHuskerDu
Senior Member
There is still a wealth of knowledge here in TX about Cat HEUI systems, because it's also on Ford 444 Powerstrokes (7.3) which remain very popular. Had a Cat-motor dump break down in our driveway and it was the IDM. Wonder if the 140v IDM mod works as well on a Cat as on a 444. Felt like +20 HP on my 2000 F-250.
DMiller
Senior Member
They are ALL electrically Sensitive. '97 Pete I was driving with 3406E developed some sensor faults, in a domino type fashion, had been some welding done to the truck in recent past, had also been a VERY Close proximity lightning hit(less than 50 ft.) then the sensors began cascading into fault. ANY welding to be done on the Vehicle with these engines or even electronic drivetrain need to disconnect the batteries at a minimum. Even welding on a trailer behind them disconnect completely or disconnect the batteries totally.
RenoHuskerDu
Senior Member
I'm looking to buy a used tandem dump, so after reading this thread I spent time reading up on class 8 trucks. Peterbilt, Freightliner, Kenworth, International. I found out a few useful things.
1) To avoid emissions malfunctions and downtime, avoid built-after-January 1, 2007 EPA compliant engines.
2) Some guys like IHC for entry-level trucks, starter trucks, relatively reliable. After reading up on Navistar, I'd rather save up some more shekels and buy another brand. Navistar is a train wreck. I've worked at big companies, seen this kind of hubris and denial, but usually it only lasts a fiscal year until the board installs new execs. Navistar sued partners left and right, even sued Cummins, and peddled Maxxforce crap for years. Cat, to their credit, bowed out honorably instead of do SCR. https://infogalactic.com/info/Navistar_International
3) Peterbilt never ran to Mexico like Freightliner did, putting American workers out of their jobs. Petes are still built in Texas, so I think I'll buy a 2006 or earlier, SFFA tandem. Lots of Peterbilts to choose from.
1) To avoid emissions malfunctions and downtime, avoid built-after-January 1, 2007 EPA compliant engines.
2) Some guys like IHC for entry-level trucks, starter trucks, relatively reliable. After reading up on Navistar, I'd rather save up some more shekels and buy another brand. Navistar is a train wreck. I've worked at big companies, seen this kind of hubris and denial, but usually it only lasts a fiscal year until the board installs new execs. Navistar sued partners left and right, even sued Cummins, and peddled Maxxforce crap for years. Cat, to their credit, bowed out honorably instead of do SCR. https://infogalactic.com/info/Navistar_International
3) Peterbilt never ran to Mexico like Freightliner did, putting American workers out of their jobs. Petes are still built in Texas, so I think I'll buy a 2006 or earlier, SFFA tandem. Lots of Peterbilts to choose from.
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RenoHuskerDu
Senior Member
Here in TX, agricultural rigs can get away with a lot more weight etc, no permit, no ticket.
RZucker
Senior Member
Peterbilt went to Texas so Mexico could just cross the border. Don't fool your self. Cheap labor was a bigger attraction than lower taxes. Got 2 friends that work for the local dealer and go to Denton occasionally for factory seminars and that's what they see. Don't get me wrong, Peterbilt is my first choice too. I think Cat screwed Navistar pretty badly over the ill fated Cat "Vocational" truck and I wouldn't blame Navistar a bit for that breach of contract.
2006 or earlier... all them are about the same... all have weak points. I see a '96 Navistar with a 12L Series 60 once a week. 1.2M miles on that old critter and it's on the road everyday.
It's all about the care they get. I know of a mid 80's Ford Big nose Louisville still on the road every day, It's the company flagship and they treat it very well, almost 2 million on that one. And people say big Fords are junk too. All in how they are treated.
RenoHuskerDu
Senior Member
Denton is way up north of DFW in the panhandle, 350 miles from the closest border with Mejico. Texas has lower taxes, which attracts business. Texas is 43% hispanic last I looked. A lot of our hispanics are multi-generational Texans. I'm hispanic / european but nobody notices that here. Just sayin' I appreciate Pete staying in the USA.
Having read this entire thread now, I should probably start a new one on my own tandem dump search. lol
Having read this entire thread now, I should probably start a new one on my own tandem dump search. lol
pushbroom
Well-Known Member
The cabover petes 320 and 520 are made in the mexico plant. Lots of the wiring harnesses come from there as well
DMiller
Senior Member
Chicago is far from MX as well yet the largest population of Hispanics in the US reside there, makes little difference as to where trucks are built these days as parts come from everywhere. I prefer KW Construction designed trucks, even the Older IHC/Navistar's as yes, they are a lot easier as are or tend to be simpler to work on and cheaper on the wallet as parts seem to be everywhere. S series IH/Navistar trucks were all too popular with State Maintenance departments and are VERY prevalent as to repair parts used or new.
If looking for a initial beater to develop a working use and not too concerned of scrapes and dents even the old LN/LT/LTL Ford series are not bad yet parts are beginning to thin. BIGGEST Mistake most newbies to dump trucks will make, buying a Recon of a old Highway design Road Tractor into a Cheap Dump chassis. Most are single frame(Flex too much and crack a LOT) accept four spring suspensions as good, try changing one under a dump bed, or buy a air ride as they Ride Nicer(they too tend to side roll with the bed up and are lay over bait unless equipped with a dump valve and that does not eliminate the problem). Better suspension, Beam rides. Hendrickson rubber ride or spring ride will transport the weight better less downtime to repairs and less apt to lean over too far without added intentional configuration adjustments during a dumping. Also generally are under heavier frames if not double frame chassis.
If looking for a initial beater to develop a working use and not too concerned of scrapes and dents even the old LN/LT/LTL Ford series are not bad yet parts are beginning to thin. BIGGEST Mistake most newbies to dump trucks will make, buying a Recon of a old Highway design Road Tractor into a Cheap Dump chassis. Most are single frame(Flex too much and crack a LOT) accept four spring suspensions as good, try changing one under a dump bed, or buy a air ride as they Ride Nicer(they too tend to side roll with the bed up and are lay over bait unless equipped with a dump valve and that does not eliminate the problem). Better suspension, Beam rides. Hendrickson rubber ride or spring ride will transport the weight better less downtime to repairs and less apt to lean over too far without added intentional configuration adjustments during a dumping. Also generally are under heavier frames if not double frame chassis.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
Hendrickson also has way better traction off road. I think the wheels oscillate a lot more.
Turns out it was just under $250 a drum and $200 shipping, the $1000 was a ballpark. Still not cheap but that's the same price I found phoning around. Although I was annoyed they didn't tell me it was coming from the Freightliner dealer as I could have gotten a better deal as I know the Foreman very well.
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The more I use/go over the truck though the more pissed I am at the shops complete incompetence. I showed up to pick it up, it's running, not just started it's at operating temp had to be running at least 30 mins. Owner came over after a bit and he's response was "It was running because I was going to move it". First thing I hear with it off is the control tower for the box controls leaking still, and he tells me "we try not to be picky". Umm the truck fails a pre-trip and shouldn't be on the road with that bad of a air leak. There was another air leak at the rear axles which I had them fix. One hub cap and all stud covers missing on steer axle, never found them instead gave me some oil to make up for it. Lost the extra 2 good tires. Specifically told them air brakes on trailer weren't working and to make sure they are fixed. Still not working. Charged for fixing exhaust leaks, but I counted 3 leaks behind the cab. They are small and don't bother me but my issue is the bill was high to begin with when I thought everything was fixed well, but now that so much wasn't fixed the bill is ridiculous in my opinion.
I've attached a copy, what do you guys think? While their labor rate is low, about $20/hr cheaper then most places I still think overall it's too many hours labour for what was done.
An issue that has popped up since I got the truck back is a shaking at higher speeds. Not the truck shaking, but like a tire shaking the truck. It's done it enough in different spots to know it's not the road. Both steer tires and 2 drives replaced all brand new. My thoughts would be possibly a tire out of round or is there someway to install the budd wheels wrong to cause it? It comes and goes, but it's pretty good shake when it's going.
I've attached a copy, what do you guys think? While their labor rate is low, about $20/hr cheaper then most places I still think overall it's too many hours labour for what was done.
An issue that has popped up since I got the truck back is a shaking at higher speeds. Not the truck shaking, but like a tire shaking the truck. It's done it enough in different spots to know it's not the road. Both steer tires and 2 drives replaced all brand new. My thoughts would be possibly a tire out of round or is there someway to install the budd wheels wrong to cause it? It comes and goes, but it's pretty good shake when it's going.
Something else that popped up that has confused me while the truck had a small oil leak on the drivers side before, they said it leaked really bad in one of their bays, then outside when I came for it there was probably a 16" circle of oil under it, they said it was only from it but no idea. They said they believed it was coming from behind pump on drivers side. So I have watched it closely since but it's only leaking a tiny bit here and there, oil level hasn't budged. Probably 1 hour of idling and 2 hours of driving since. I know the truck has sat a lot the last few years, but if a bad oil leak popped up it make no sense it would go away again?
RZucker
Senior Member
That leak behind the injection pump may be bad o-rings between the pump and block. It can come and go depending on the temperature of the engine. if it is leaking at that point, the pump will have to come off the engine to repair it. (NOT cheap). If those guys charge that kind of money and don't fix the problems.... You are getting HOSED. Find another shop.
Yea I just found it odd, after pulling the hoe would be the worst time to leak because engine is hot, but nothing any of the times. I wouldn't dream of taking it there if it needs that, owner admitted he doesn't even know how to remove pump. Another mechanic said probably 1 day to remove 1 day to put back, which I don't believe it takes that long for someone who knows what they are doing.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
I feel your pain. Major Overhaul in Edmonton seems to be a pretty good place for truck repairs. They had a dump truck for sale from a customer that owed them money. I didn't buy the truck but they were very helpful. The owner took me for a ride in the truck around the shop and explained everything to me about the truck and what to look for in a used truck.
When I bought a truck at an auction a few years later I wanted to take it there to have a once over. I thought the GF's father in law could drive it there for me but it didn't have an inspection and wasn't a brand new truck so no way. If you drove a truck for 40 years I think you should be able to tell pretty quick if you think it's road worthy. I've never drove a tandem so basically looked on the web for how to drive it. It drove great, me not so much. I made the mistake of taking it to First Truck Center on the South Side because it was closer and they were open on weekends. Their rate was $160/hr. in 2015. Other shops were $120/hr. They changed the oil, checked the coolant (PH?), checked for codes and other basic stuff and charged me around $1000. They said one diff. the fluid didn't look the best so I had them change it. That was close to another $500. It was listed as having a broken spring on the right side. I asked how much to replace a spring and they said they normally put a complete new spring pack in. I asked the foreman to show me (it was a different foreman from when I dropped it off). He couldn't find a broken spring and since then I've had half dozen people look at it and no one saw a broken spring. I talked to City Spring and they said if it's just one spring, that's all they have to replace. I think they were trying to get money for repairs not needed. The other thing is they changed fuel filters and the one filter wasn't even hooked into the system. I think it was an additional filter with a primer pump added at some point but disconnected and the hose made a loop from the outlet back to the input. I realized this when I pushed the primer and it didn't do anything. The truck would start and run 30 seconds and lose prime overnight. I have since found if you hold the idle at about 1100 it will get it enough fuel to keep running and can then idle normal. How does a competent shop/mechanic not realize a filter isn't hooked up and the primer does nothing?
https://www.majoroverhaul.ca/
When I bought a truck at an auction a few years later I wanted to take it there to have a once over. I thought the GF's father in law could drive it there for me but it didn't have an inspection and wasn't a brand new truck so no way. If you drove a truck for 40 years I think you should be able to tell pretty quick if you think it's road worthy. I've never drove a tandem so basically looked on the web for how to drive it. It drove great, me not so much. I made the mistake of taking it to First Truck Center on the South Side because it was closer and they were open on weekends. Their rate was $160/hr. in 2015. Other shops were $120/hr. They changed the oil, checked the coolant (PH?), checked for codes and other basic stuff and charged me around $1000. They said one diff. the fluid didn't look the best so I had them change it. That was close to another $500. It was listed as having a broken spring on the right side. I asked how much to replace a spring and they said they normally put a complete new spring pack in. I asked the foreman to show me (it was a different foreman from when I dropped it off). He couldn't find a broken spring and since then I've had half dozen people look at it and no one saw a broken spring. I talked to City Spring and they said if it's just one spring, that's all they have to replace. I think they were trying to get money for repairs not needed. The other thing is they changed fuel filters and the one filter wasn't even hooked into the system. I think it was an additional filter with a primer pump added at some point but disconnected and the hose made a loop from the outlet back to the input. I realized this when I pushed the primer and it didn't do anything. The truck would start and run 30 seconds and lose prime overnight. I have since found if you hold the idle at about 1100 it will get it enough fuel to keep running and can then idle normal. How does a competent shop/mechanic not realize a filter isn't hooked up and the primer does nothing?
https://www.majoroverhaul.ca/
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