Building Class 8 motorhome... Need some opinions

[Nklpltd]

I am forwarding this to a friend ( more like a brother) who has years of experience addressing all of these problems.he can tell you what he thought would work but didn't and vise-a-versa.

Thanks, I'm curious to see what he says...

 

[johndeere123]

The suspension for a single axle should not limit you. You will almost always be overweight before you exceed the capacity of the suspension. You also dont want to go too heavy on the suspension because an oversized suspension may result in a rough ride.

 

[Nklpltd]

Well it will all be air ride so that is controllable.

 

[Nklpltd]

So I have to tweak my plans a little. I was on the phone yesterday with the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure in British Columbia Canada. I know a little odd. I have always had a desire to travel around Canada and really want to take this rig on that trip.

Well their length laws are a bit shorter than my home state, Idaho which is 75 feet max length. They only allow up to 65 feet which is the same as most US states. This is workable and I have already redesigned my trailer to be 20 ft vs the original 30 ft.

The bigger issue that makes me tweak my plans is they do not allow lift axles in Canada unless they are installed under certain conditions by the original manufacturer. So now I have to decide if I want to try and only have one rear axle with a very large rating or leave the regular dual set.

If I go with the duals, it defeats the whole smaller turning radius concept that I have been talking about. I have been doing some research and I think I could find a single axle that would be large enough but I cannot find a air suspension set up for a single axle that would match the axle rating. From what I can find, the largest single axle air suspension set up is 23,000 pounds.

With the shorter trailer, I have had to readjust the way layout of the vehicles I will be hauling and it puts a lot more tongue weight than I was originally planning. To be honest I feel a bit uncomfortable with a rig this long and weighs this much with only a single rear axle even if it is rated high like 40,000. Have both axles gives a little redundancy in case of a blow out, and extra braking axle or other type of emergency.

 

[mitch504]

Most states you can't have more than 20000 lbs on a single axle anyway, around here that would leave the weigh station or roadside check on a lowboy.

 

[Nklpltd]

Interesting... I did not know this. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

 

[stumpjumper83]

Are motor homes not exempt from weight stations? I thought they were for commercial vehicles over a cewrtain weight. Anyhow, what for cargo are you planning on hauling that would require tandems?

 

[Nklpltd]

A 20 ft gooseneck with a 8000 lb snow cat, 6500 lb truck, a UTV and another 2000-3000 of misc. So that is on top of the original weight of a 45' class 8 motorhome. With having to shorten the trailer 10 feet, it raised the tongue weight a considerable amount.

 

[johndeere123]

Here you can install a lift axle into a truck and run it on the road without certification. I don't see how BC would be much different. Here you need a permit to use a third set of duals, but not a single axle with a lift.

 

[CRAFT]

Well it will all be air ride so that is controllable.

Hmmmm ???? …..That's not true ! …..the way Air ride works is if the load is lighter there is less air pressure needed to maintain the ride height, and visa-versa if the load is max'd out then it will require more air pressure to stay at that ride height ….. to lessen the amount of air in the bags only reduces the air bags travel distance before it bottoms out internally. Another major issue you will have is the drive-line angles (u-joints)when running less air pressure the working angles change …. both ends of the drive shaft have to be equal degrees.

If it was me I'd be looking at a Tandem set-up with air lockers both axles and use a Neway air ride suspension, they have a 6" travel within the bags as opposed to the Pete Air-trac which has only 3-1/2" travel and uses half leaves as part of the suspension ….. it's a proven fact that tandems have far better traction than a single in snow or mud, our Fire Dept. has 45' single axle trucks loaded to the max we are always getting stuck in soft areas, we have one tank tender that can haul 4,000 gal of water and is a tandem it'll walk past the singles turn around come back and pull out the singles ……… 45' is 45' no matter how you look at it and if it's such an issue about turning around then maybe a guy shouldn't of been there ???? …… jmho …. have fun with the build

 

[Nklpltd]

Actually now I am keeping the duals. With the changes I found out about traveling through British Columbia, I do not see a choice.

I have looked into the Neway air suspension. My plans already are to use a Neway AD, ADZ or Hendrickson HAS air ride system with the tandems.

Here you can install a lift axle into a truck and run it on the road without certification. I don't see how BC would be much different. Here you need a permit to use a third set of duals, but not a single axle with a lift.

This is taken right from the British Columbia law book.


Lift axles
7.11
(1) A person must not, without a permit, drive or operate on a highway a vehicle or a combination of vehicles in which a control is provided for varying the weight on an axle or group of axles, unless

(a) the control locks or unlocks a sliding fifth wheel coupler,
(b) the vehicle is a ready mix concrete truck and the control is manually operated and located outside the driver compartment and immediately adjacent to the axle or group of axles being affected, or
(c) the control is an automatic axle lift device that
(i) was installed on the trailer by
(A) the original trailer manufacturer, or
(B) an installer working under the supervision of, and according to an installation plan developed by, a professional engineer, and
(ii) is equipped with tamper-resistant features to prevent unintended field adjustments,
and the trailer on which it is installed
(iii) has affixed on each side, near the affected axles, a unique logo indicating that an automatic axle lift device is installed on the trailer, and
(iv) is equipped with an on/off control to operate the automatic axle lift device and with a status light visible from the cab to indicate to the driver when the device is activated.
(2) A person must not, without a permit, drive or operate a vehicle or vehicle combination with lift axles in contact with the ground if the vehicle is
(a) not also equipped with an automatic lift axle that meets the requirements set out in subsection (1) (c) (i) and (ii), or
(b) a pole trailer.
[en. B.C. Reg. 95/2006, s. 3; am. B.C. Reg. 97/2009, s. (a).]

Self steering axles
7.12 A person must not, without a permit, drive or operate on a highway a vehicle or a vehicle combination equipped with a self steering axle if the tires of the self steering axle are in contact with the ground, unless the vehicle or one vehicle in the vehicle combination is

(a) a tandem drive ready-mix concrete truck equipped with a self steering booster axle, or
(b) a jeep, an A or C converter dolly or a full trailer, and the jeep, dolly or trailer is equipped with a self steering axle in the front axle group.
[en. B.C. Reg. 95/2006, s. 3.]

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Guday Nkpltd I have been watching this thread develop with interest.

Speaking as a bloke who has lived a good part of my seventy odd years in caravans (trailers) and motorhomes have built a few I often wonder what the attraction is for Class 8 builds and conversions . . . the only thing I can see they are good for is they provide the ability to haul a few tons of fresh and blackwater. I wouldn't have thought that would be an issue in the US?

Cheers.

 

[Nklpltd]

That's the thing. If I were planning to only use this in the lower 48 states then I wouldn't have any problems adding a lift axle, steerable axle or a combo axle that does both.

I have always been extremely fascinated with Alaska. I want to go there and visit as much of the state as I possibly can, staying maybe a month or two. But my problem is having to drive through British Columbia to get there. So therefore lies my dilemma. I won't have a problem in the lower 48 or Alaska, it's that in between section that forces me to tweak everything.

Since I am changing this to be allow in BC, why not travel around more of Canada as well?

My reason for building a class 8 is I want something that is different and very purpose built. I want a very custom looking rig, with a classic truck nose, and side stacks. Like many comments that I've gotten on here and other places, class 8 trucks to not struggle with any power and can haul anything you put in them or behind them. I do plan on having very large water tanks (Clean, grey and black), along with large fuel and propane tanks so that I can stop, dump and refill/refuel where it's most convenient for me and not forced like people with smaller tanks to dump wherever there is a dump station at a good or bad location.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Gotcha mate, thats all fair enough . . . I admire your enthusiasm and drive to get 'er done.

Don't forget though that every year you spend on building coulda been a year you were out and doing if you buy off the shelf.

Cheers

 

[Nklpltd]

Well for me, I feel that the build is half the fun. It will not stop me from getting out and enjoying the great outdoors in other ways while the build is on.

 

[Oxbow]

Self steering axles
7.12 A person must not, without a permit
, drive or operate on a highway a vehicle or a vehicle combination equipped with a self steering axle if the tires of the self steering axle are in contact with the ground, unless the vehicle or one vehicle in the vehicle combination is

(a) a tandem drive ready-mix concrete truck equipped with a self steering booster axle, or
(b) a jeep, an A or C converter dolly or a full trailer, and the jeep, dolly or trailer is equipped with a self steering axle in the front axle group.

Perhaps it would be worth a phone call to BC to determine what the cost and process to obtain the permit would be. These laws are designed to prevent drivers from "hiding" weight while crossing scales.

(iv) is equipped with an on/off control to operate the automatic axle lift device and with a status light visible from the cab to indicate to the driver when the device is activated

I suspect that one way or another, what you would like to do is allowable. Having a cab controlled switch to raise/lower the tag axle would be handy in slick conditions (to put more weight on the drives when climbing a snow covered hill), but with a locking differential it may not be that bid of a deal. You can certainly (as Tiny mentioned) have a self steering axle that is raised without a cab control by wiring it into the back up light wiring.

I had to add a back up alarm to my lowboy tractor to be allowed on a specific job. On my tractor the tag axle lift is activated by either the reverse sender on the transmission or the cab controlled switch. The backup lights and work (load) lights are all on a seperate switch. The problem that arose was that if I wired the back up alarm into the reverse sensor on the transmission, then whenever the axle was lifted via the cab switch, the back up alarm would sound due to feeding form the other end of the circuit. Installation of a diode allowing current to flow in one direction only solved this problem.

I really didn't mean to write a book on this, but with the ability that you must posses to embark on such a project, I believe that you can speak to the BC folks and come up with an allowable solution. Judging from your description of the vehicle that you propose to build I suspect that without the additional self steering tag axle, or a tandem drive setup, you will not be legal on your axle weights.

Good luck on your project!

 

[Nklpltd]

I have contacted BC to see what it would take, or if I am even eligible to obtain a permit. I have not heard back from them yet. When I do, I will post their reply.

Oxbow, I agree with you, I do need at least 2 axles, whether it's a tandem set up or one drive and one lift/steerable.