Bobcat T190 Engine help.

[willie59]

Does that engine have the external fuel shutdown solenoid with a short linkage? If yes, are you sure the solenoid is pulling the run/stop lever fully into the Run position?

Have you verified the lift pump is delivering good fuel supply to the injection pump?

 

[Delmer]

Have we talked about glow plugs? but that would only matter to the starting cold.

Have you checked TDC using the piston? I don't know if it's possible, if the crank holes would allow the flywheel to be installed wrong, that would do it. How does the engine sound running? smoother than you'd expect? more diesel knock than you'd expect? You could turn the crank 18* past the mark and push the valves down by hand to determine if it's at TDC.

What kind of electronics are on this engine? I'm only familiar with the old fashioned Kubotas, not turbo's or anything that new.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I had 1 in the shop the other day.. it would start GREAT, then the RPM's would drop, just short of full load.. it ran an, insulation blower..
The rubber fuel lines going to/from the fuel tank were bad.. the lift pump was bad.. and culprit ended-up being... the SHUT-OFF SOLENOID..
It received 12v at start-up.. THEN dropped off to 5v while running.. allowing the solenoid to still stay engaged but let go of the rod just far enough to interfere w/ the rack on the pump, not allowing it to go to full fuel..
AND it was a 2 WIRE SET-UP.!!! not 3...
I found it by, probing the wires w/a volt meter while the engine was starting, then while it was running..
I VERIFIED IT by removing the s/o solenoid entirely.. engine ran great..
It ended up being a bad ground and a faulty hot lead...
Not saying your s/o solenoid is the problem.. just saying they can reek havoc on diagnosing a problem.. remove it..

 

[DannyW]

hey guys, I am new here... i see that the pump guy is from South Carolina also and was wondering if i could get your email as i am having trouble with a stanadyne injector pump on a case 580c..

 

[thepumpguysc]

THE PUMP GUY IS A MYTH.. he doesn't exist.. ask anyone..
You cant click on his name to get his email address cuz your new..
BUT>> if you type in>> thepumpguyscataol,com you might just find him.. LOL

 

[sstocker31]

Just read through the whole thing, very interesting. I'm sure you've done it but it hasn't been said here.....you've changed the fuel filter right?? and verified fuel flow from the tank to the pump, how about the quality of the fuel?
If so I'd be pullin' the front cover to verify all the timing marks.

 

[Black71gp]

Fuel filter is new, fuel is good straight from my tank, delivered from the supplier, run it in everything no other issues.

Glow plugs all test good, they get good power at key on for 20 seconds as the dash auto counts down.

fuel pump flows well. I can toss something else on there and double check no change.

i have started and ran it a few times with the fuel solenoid disconnected and held at full start.

I will try to get a video of it trying to start, its 50* out today so it should start pretty decent, but then I will show how it smokes on bogs down as well. maybe that will help with the issues at hand.

I'm about to take the dumb dealers advice and buy a used engine and toss it in there. Dont have a lot of work for it right now in the winter, but spring is gonna come soon with as mild as the winter has been.

 

[greenhead21]

I too am having the same issues as you Black71gp. I have a 2001 T190 with the 2003 Kubota in it and has 1400 hours. This fall it overheated, was 100 that day, when doing work for a farmer in one of his fields. I loaded it took it home and was busy and it wasn't snowing so I didn't need to use it. The first snow back in November here in ND I fired it up (started fine and ran fine) and removed the snow about 20 minutes time of running. It was getting hot again as I hadnt checked it out from this fall. I parked it and started to go through started to look over the radiator where I found a mouse had completely plugged the radiator but could not see it from just a glance at it until I dug in deeper. I cleaned the radiator and decided to fire it back up and see how it ran if it would cool or not. I moved about 10 feet got out and could smell that sweet smell. I opened the back to see fluid spraying from the head. I replaced the head it came with new valves installed, changed oil and fuel filter. It fired right up but would lug down and chug black smoke just while trying to move forward or backward at full speed. I moved snow again and let it run to see if it would come out of it, but it never did. I have about a 25 degree hill coming out of my driveway to get to the main road. The bobcat will start and idle to 2850 rpm at full throttle. Once I got to move forward or backward it will lug down and puff black smoke at about 2/3 of the levers in the forward position. Let off and it go immediately back to 2800+. Going up the hill holding back not to stall the machine at it will lug down to about 1600-1800 in about 25 yards distance up the hill almost stalling out. Sitting in place at full throttle moving the bucket up and down will bump idle down to about 2600 which doesnt seem huge but not sure if it was doing that before, never had to pay attention to it as it was running fine. All of this mentioned I put it back in the shop and went through the simple things first.
-Checked valve adjustment was good
-New drive belt
-New fuel filter again
-Drained fuel tank and added new fuel
-Drained hydraulic system added new fluid
-New case drain filters
-New hydraulic filters
-New oil filter
-New air filters
-Checked turbo seemed to be fine
-Tested and cleaned injectors were good (done this when head was off)
-New fuel lines
-New primer bulb
-New pickup fuel line and screen

I need to check compression, timing and injector pump this weekend hopefully. I like you am running out of areas to look.
I will keep you posted on anything new I find and will be following this forum.

 

[willie59]

I'm about to take the dumb dealers advice and buy a used engine and toss it in there. Dont have a lot of work for it right now in the winter, but spring is gonna come soon with as mild as the winter has been.

I'm running out of ideas myself with all the stuff you've checked. I find it hard to believe the engine is worn out with the compression you reported in post #1, especially given the specs for that engine has a minimum allowable compression of 355 psi.

Just for the hell of it, have you checked that the air purge valve on the injection pump is in the closed position? Or possible the purge valve is faulty not allowing proper pressure inside the injection pump.

 

[zhkent]

It's not the valve cam timing is it? I don't know about these motors at all, just wondering if that could get off
changing the head.

 

[Wes J]

Pull the front cover and see. It's not that bad of a job.

 

[Black71gp]

Thanks. Green head. Sounds like the same issues. The hill bogging down for sure. Can push the levers all the way forward without it stalling have to carefully push it to keep engine rpm up.

Perhaps something with changing the head. I don't know when my head was changed I just can tell it was due to the paint color.

Yes bleed screw is closed. Not sure if faulty or not.

Agree that min spec compression is 355 so with 3700 hours 380-390 should be just fine.

The head looked like a simple job, no messing with any timing or anything like that. Just a few push rods and head bolts.

Something is causing a fuel issue, which seems to be part of the start issue as well. I was really hoping the injection timing was way off but we have corrected and moved on from that.

 

[cdm123]

Does any one know if the intake and exhaust push rods are the same length, maybe some got mixed up in the head swap?

 

[Wes J]

Does any one know if the intake and exhaust push rods are the same length, maybe some got mixed up in the head swap?

Unless I'm thinking all wrong, it should not matter. As long as the valves are set correctly, the push rods can be as long or short as they want. Unless they actually hit something, it should have no effect.

Are you sure it has the right head on it?

 

[greenhead21]

Push rods are same length for both intake and exhaust. Compression could maybe be related to head gasket thickness. Not sure what OEM gasket thickness and if an aftermarket gasket if thicker or thinner. I know some do have different thickness from different makers. What the difference in compression would be I am not sure but one would think there maybe a slight difference. Today when I started mine up I noticed that the muffler was leaking around the base. Why did it crack there is a good question, but I ordered a new one so I will know more once that is installed. Will keep posted.

 

[willie59]

Something is causing a fuel issue, which seems to be part of the start issue as well. I was really hoping the injection timing was way off but we have corrected and moved on from that.

Wait, what, am I reading this right? I thought we have gone through and verified everything about the fuel delivery?

 

[Black71gp]

yes sorry verified fuel delivery is all good, just saying still black smoke, which is too much fuel, for some reason or another.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Rather than read 4pgs over again.. I'll ask the question..
Does it rev to full RPMS?? and have good throttle response up and down..??
IF not.. I have the answer..

 

[Black71gp]

Rather than read 4pgs over again.. I'll ask the question..
Does it rev to full RPMS?? and have good throttle response up and down..??
IF not.. I have the answer..

Seems to have good throttle response. And full rpm seems to be occurring, haven't hooked a tack up.

What are you thinking?

 

[thepumpguysc]

I had 1 in the shop the other day and it would start great.. just NO throttle response above idle and lots of smoke..
I found the main governor spring had broken and the only thing controlling the pump rack was the "start spring"..
It would start good but the engine flyweights would stretch the start spring.. and there was nothing to fight the flyweight force..
so no RPM's..
I found it by removing the side plate/inspection plate under the injection pump.. and moving/holding the pump rack by hand..