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BC3 cam & follower issue

StanRUS

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Mar 7, 2016
Messages
767
Location
Cal
Worked Continental Engine Rebuilders for a short time, they INSISTED on installing upper bore sleeves mainly to pay for the damned machine to do that as was seriously expensive. They had a grand time explaining away the coolant seeping nightmares they sent out, I left after a short/long three months
Majority of Engine Machine Shops insist on machining cylinder block areas that are per OEM's guidelines not a issue. Liner ledges, slightly corroded coolant transfer holes, decks. Yes, helps pay for expensive machine tools.

Short/long 3 months employment duration; large employee turn over? At least you were familiar with mechanical engine assembly. That is a constant problem with machine shops, low pay and cannot keep experienced journeyman machinist.

I put a stop to sending blocks out for repairs, typical D346 V8 over $3,500.00; equipment manager receiving a kick-back. Not broke, don't fix it.
 

DMiller

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My choice to leave, could not stand putting my name on crap work they insisted on. GAVE them the time to make a difference, failed to, that and the general Foreman was taught to "Keep the Employee ANGRY as they will Work Harder" philosophy, did not work as far as I could see, just a lot of pissed off employees NOT working very hard in general.
 

Truck Shop

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WWW.
The fact is stan {I don't need a lesson on big cam cummins} And the standard timing code for a small cam was 36* And yes the Magnum was another way for cummins to
get rid of junk. And the magnum timing was advanced to 56* it was as far as I remember the only small cam that was ADVANCED that far not retarded. You are trying to
compare small cam timing to big cam timing codes and two totally different camshaft profiles. Most camshaft failures were do to Not running the overheads and proper
oil change intervals plus over fueling. Truth be known. Plus I spent six years in automotive machine, because I decked a lot of heads, blocks and line bored til hell wouldn't
have it I suppose I'm one of those guys. end of discussion with me.

Truck Shop
 

RZucker

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Wherever I end up
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My choice to leave, could not stand putting my name on crap work they insisted on. GAVE them the time to make a difference, failed to, that and the general Foreman was taught to "Keep the Employee ANGRY as they will Work Harder" philosophy, did not work as far as I could see, just a lot of pissed off employees NOT working very hard in general.
Had a boss like that way back, When he would come to shop and stir the sh!t, I would do whatever I could to make him mad... then he would leave and normalcy would set back in. Later he got demoted and I got his position, the GM told me to fire him... NO... he got most of the nasty jobs and kept doing them. Go figure?
 

petepilot

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Joined
Jul 7, 2018
Messages
2,168
Location
central shenandoah valley va,
The fact is stan {I don't need a lesson on big cam cummins} And the standard timing code for a small cam was 36* And yes the Magnum was another way for cummins to
get rid of junk. And the magnum timing was advanced to 56* it was as far as I remember the only small cam that was ADVANCED that far not retarded. You are trying to
compare small cam timing to big cam timing codes and two totally different camshaft profiles. Most camshaft failures were do to Not running the overheads and proper
oil change intervals plus over fueling. Truth be known. Plus I spent six years in automotive machine, because I decked a lot of heads, blocks and line bored til hell wouldn't
have it I suppose I'm one of those guys. end of discussion with me.

Truck Shop
was definately advance from 36 to 56 using an offset cam key of which I do not remember the number
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
I like these threads .:) Just had a customer call about some problems with a big cam 290 in a 1979 Kenworth .

A lot of blow by ! I'm guessing a cracked or busted piston .

Long story short we " in framed " the truck about 17 years ago .

I'm like … Yeah , we will build it again . :D

Be interesting to see what the cam looks like ? Time will tell .


Bottom end kit set us back a whopping $ 1,200.00 :)

Old school 855 Cummins engines rock !
Almost as good as Detroit ;)
 

StanRUS

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Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
767
Location
Cal
And the magnum timing was advanced to 56* it was as far as I remember the only small cam that was ADVANCED that far not retarded.
All Cummins form day one: Direct Quite from Service Manual.
**Advanced timing means the fuel is injected earlier into the cylinder during the compression stroke, Retarded timing means the fuel injection occurs closer to TDC in the cylinder.
**The amount of push rod travel determines the time of fuel injection in relation to the piston position. The higher the numerical value of the push rod travel remaining indicates a greater degree of retarded or slow timing.
The lower the numerical value of the push rod travel remaining indicates a greater degree of fast timing.
** Injection timing changes are accomplished by advancing or retarding the cam follower action to the piston position.
This is accomplished by changing the orientation of the camshaft lobe to the cam follower using different camshaft gear keys. (emphasis Cummins)
Note: Advanced = moving cam follower (roller) towards the inside of the engine. Retarded = moving cam follower (roller) away from the inside of the engine. Adding or removing follower box gaskets or using offset keys, or combination gasket/keys.

All Cummins C,J,H, NH, NTs, BC1,2,3,4 Vs, Ks use 19degree BTDC, position of injector plunger 0.2035"

Cummins JUNK put beans of the table for 10 of thousands of truckers.

petepilot. SC high Hp camshafts, all numbers originating from >143450,3023229, 3023177,152960, 3023229, 3608842
 
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RZucker

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All Cummins form day one: Direct Quite from Service Manual.
**Advanced timing means the fuel is injected earlier into the cylinder during the compression stroke, Retarded timing means the fuel injection occurs closer to TDC in the cylinder.
**The amount of push rod travel determines the time of fuel injection in relation to the piston position. The higher the numerical value of the push rod travel remaining indicates a greater degree of retarded or slow timing.
The lower the numerical value of the push rod travel remaining indicates a greater degree of fast timing.
** Injection timing changes are accomplished by advancing or retarding the cam follower action to the piston position.
This is accomplished by changing the orientation of the camshaft lobe to the cam follower using different camshaft gear keys. (emphasis Cummins)
Note: Advanced = moving cam follower (roller) towards the inside of the engine. Retarded = moving cam follower (roller) away from the inside of the engine. Adding or removing follower box gaskets or using offset keys, or combination gasket/keys.

All Cummins C,J,H, NH, NTs, BC1,2,3,4 Vs, Ks use 19degree BTDC, position of injector plunger 0.2035"

Cummins JUNK put beans of the table for 10 of thousands of truckers.

petepilot. SC high Hp camshafts, all numbers originating from >143450,3023229, 3023177,152960, 3023229, 3608842

Not sure here, Its been 20+ years since I timed a set of followers with the dual indicators… But iirc fewer gaskets/shims RETARDED timing, Not advanced it. The cam does turn opposite the crank rotation. Seemed that a 335 with a straight up key and no gaskets would be about 29 degrees retarded?
 

StanRUS

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Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
767
Location
Cal
Not sure here, Its been 20+ years since I timed a set of followers with the dual indicators… But iirc fewer gaskets/shims RETARDED timing, Not advanced it. The cam does turn opposite the crank rotation. Seemed that a 335 with a straight up key and no gaskets would be about 29 degrees retarded?
You guys are confusing advanced-retarded
Couple photos KT19 manual (18.7liter) 6.25"X6.25" in-line 6 cyl engines. Higher the HP slower the injection timing > retarded. KTA700-C / 700Hp-0.144". KTs; no follower boxes and gaskets. All timing adjustments are by using straight or off-set keys. Test cam gear honed out for injector timing of 1 cylinder; measure and correct per timing charts worksheet. Heat regular cam gear in oven, install.
Photo view from front of engine
Time1.jpgTime 2.jpg
KTs @ Tier3 final are still in usage.
IMO, probably best to limit discussions to Hallback's BC3 in this thread.
We learn everyday; lots our prior knowledge is disproven everyday, another page for your book.
 
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StanRUS

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Mar 7, 2016
Messages
767
Location
Cal
Additional information that pertains to Hallback’s BC3 cam & follower issue
TIME4.jpg TIME5.jpg
855s are obsolete for on-highway usage in S. Cal; 855s are still used for AG operations that are exempted and do not require CARB registration. One customer is running 17 Case 8-tire AG tractors with 855s; engines still require repairs.
 

DMiller

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N14 is next up and is already a aged system, 855s and the 1150 are fast becoming relics of our past. Those with the 3406, 3408, 1693 Cats and the old DD Two strokers.
 

StanRUS

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Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
767
Location
Cal
N14 is next up and is already a aged system, 855s and the 1150 are fast becoming relics of our past. Those with the 3406, 3408, 1693 Cats and the old DD Two strokers.
All good to go for farmers and you can use AG machines for 200hrs per on construction jobs; rotate machines.
CARB-AG trucks are okay except you cannot add additional units and 10K per year mileage limit until 2023. CARB-Construction Trucks if you're a licensed general contractor, limit 15k per year.77-359 1693 chromed up, under 1,000 miles usage; good investment.

CARB is formulating new smoke tests, mandatory.
New streamlined ca.gov click, click you're screwed:mad::mad: website
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/truckstop/truckstop.htm

I was going to build a Truck sledge puller; we can't have pulling contests in Calif any longer:eek::mad:. 1150s can spin up to 3400revs, 3500Hp plus, with quad turbos in unlimited class. Tom Lindsay (PA) is the guru with 1150s.
Edit: Building KTA700 using phase 8 industrial heads for on-highway. Discussing BTU heat rejection per minute with Cummins Engineers, 'injection timing, compression ratios'. NO confusion about advanced or retarded fuel injection timing.

Reply pertains to Hallback's BC3, yep he's going to retire the truck.
 
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StanRUS

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Joined
Mar 7, 2016
Messages
767
Location
Cal
I've never paid any attention to pulling contests but, did they outlaw them on account of too much black smoke? I guess that is why they are never advertised.
Temecula's Old Town annual festival included tractor mud pit races, that ended Oct 2013. Water conservation, black smoke blah...

Corona Clay's owner Jerry Deleo leases practice-test tracks to Moto-Cross factory racing teams and Thompson Off Road Racing. We were decking another hill for an additional off road test track; neighbor (late friend's wife) ratted us out, no grading permits.County; stop now, not allowed. 1,300+ acres of Mining-Industrial property located in Dawson Canyon with local landfill; new housing developement butting up to the property. Probably be hearing about noise pollution soon:mad: Jerry and family are into racing; son-in-law is Jeff Ward. Truck pulls? Black-Smoke would be an major issue; 1st time we used BBQ pit Cal Fire showed up:eek::cool:, LOL

40yrs plus after job stop beers for the crew; no longer allowed per insurance company liability policies and CHP's, County Sheriffs' watchful eyes. Legalized Weed; I had difficulty keeping/finding pass-drug-test drivers, ditto off-road operators. Running businesses have morphed into babysitting dysfunctional children; that is the root of the problem, IMO. Children are not taught to take responsibility for themselves or others. Schools; pass Jane/James to the next grade; teachers don't want parents' outraged push-back, not my extra special single parent brat.

Is this reply related to BC3 roller & follower issue? Corona Rock-All American Asphalt Friday evening bond fire parties/payday. A magnetic attraction for good little girls, going bad seeking out Big Camshafts, direct injections, rolled and followed, LOL

Birken, living in Calif does require life-style adjustments, worst never ending traffic. Ontario JTC, RTE I-15 250K plus vehicles daily plus 25,574 trucks. But air-quality has improved compared to 1990.
Cherrs or Tears
 
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td25c

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Feb 14, 2009
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indiana
No tractor / truck pulls in California ?

That's just plain wrong !

220 Allis getting busy at the 2018 Indiana state fair .



Tractor /truck pulling & racing are deeply woven into the fabric of the country . :)
 

DMiller

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Seems like One State is out to conquer the world, not surprising. They keep it up and by 2023 there will be NO farms/farming/road work/construction/driving in CA.
 
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