Who Backdrags?

OzDozer · Oct 1, 2012

I asked him why he moved dirt coming and going and he said "if the tractor is moving and the dirt ain't you are wasting time, fuel and my patience"

Spoken like a true contract-rate operator!! A man after my own heart!

A good operator never lets the dirt fall below the top of the blade, either, when pushing. When it does, you stop, back up, grab some more and push that into the half-pile you were previously pushing.

There's nothing like watching an operator push a half-or-three-quarters-full blade, to make a true contractor weep.

locomoconomo · Oct 1, 2012

OzDozer said:
Spoken like a true contract-rate operator!! A man after my own heart!

Forgive my ignorance OzDozer, I don't understand this statement, although it sounds like a compliment to my long ago acquaintance Bruce.

diggerop · Oct 1, 2012

vapor300 said:
but i have see operators back drag a road because the could blade it off smooth goin forward, that i think is a rookie

Depends on the size of the dozer. The smallest that we have is a D9, mostly D11s. When you make a road/track in loose material with those there will be always pretty good track marks which are not good to drive on with a Toyota Landcruiser or other similiar light vehicle.

OzDozer....You know what most people think, when they see someone holding or using a tool backwards, don't you! LOL

Yes ... a very clever and innovative person who can get the most use out of the tools they have to work with at the time...

and probably not a rookie :drinkup

vapor300 · Oct 1, 2012

LMAO at Skadill! I agree 100% with you

If the dirt is not moving your waisting time??? What can you move a yard back dragging if that. Most of the time you see someone backdrag its because they made a mistake

vapor300 · Oct 1, 2012

Im not talking about a dozer of that size, im talking about finish dozers, and even in a machine that size i dont think i would backdrag, probably alot to do with pride, i like ppl to see the cuts i have just made, or how slick i got it going the right direction. But thats just me

OzDozer · Oct 1, 2012

locomoconomo - The statement means that there's a sizeable difference in outlook between an operator/contractor on a contract rate, as compared to someone on a straight hourly rate.
A guy on a straight hourly rate is only filling in hours, he doesn't care too much about efficiency.
On the other hand, an operator/contractor on a contract rate, is looking for the most efficient and economic method of carrying out the work, in the fastest possible time.

Contract operators/contractors are the most efficient people on the planet, and forever looking for ways to find a better way to do things. They don't waste anything, particularly fuel, machine time, or labor time.

OzDozer · Oct 1, 2012

Post deleted - double post.

locomoconomo · Oct 2, 2012

OzDozer said:
locomoconomo - The statement means that there's a sizeable difference in outlook between an operator/contractor on a contract rate, as compared to someone on a straight hourly rate.
A guy on a straight hourly rate is only filling in hours, he doesn't care too much about efficiency.
On the other hand, an operator/contractor on a contract rate, is looking for the most efficient and economic method of carrying out the work, in the fastest possible time.

Contract operators/contractors are the most efficient people on the planet, and forever looking for ways to find a better way to do things. They don't waste anything, particularly fuel, machine time, or labor time.

Thanks for the clarification.

caterpillarRy · Oct 2, 2012

i think float might have been put on hydraulics for the old guys who ran cable machines for ever

Buckethead · Oct 2, 2012

OzDozer said:
Yes, I do know you don't have to use float for back-blading. However, using the hydraulics whilst back-blading makes the dirt build up behind the blade, and then it gets picked up by the tracks and hurled up and back, obscuring your vision.

Not sure you get what I meant.

OzDozer said:
A good operator never lets the dirt fall below the top of the blade, either, when pushing. When it does, you stop, back up, grab some more and push that into the half-pile you were previously pushing.
There's nothing like watching an operator push a half-or-three-quarters-full blade, to make a true contractor weep.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I know you always need some dirt in front of the blade to grade, but when you're fine grading, you can't just gouge! I took it like this was about fine grading, that is, the bulk dirt is moved, it's rough graded and you're finishing. You could probably measure it more in square yards that cubic yards, if that helps you understand.

vapor300 · Oct 2, 2012

yes he has to be talking aboul bulk pushing, if you were always pushing a full blade when finishing you would never get rid of the windrow

OzDozer · Oct 2, 2012

Yes, sorry, a little thread drift there, I started talking about efficiency in operation, instead of specifically back-blading.
You've brought up a good point, though. Going forward with only a teensy amount of dirt in the blade, and trying to make a level cut, is the most difficult thing you can attempt.
A blade that's got some dirt in front of it, stabilises the machine from dipping and bouncing. Thus the attraction of back-blading, you don't have to have dirt in front of the blade, to stabilise the dipping and bouncing.

crazy-mp · Oct 3, 2012

I am not a operator anymore, moved over to the service side, but the company I work for does about 1/3 of their work back dragging. Most of their finish work on parking lots around corners involves pushing rock up to the curb and gutter and back dragging excess material back. Not talking mountains of material but enough to fill the work area in.

Curbster · Oct 3, 2012

Sharky said:
Just curious as to how many "Operators" run the blade backwards as much as they do forward?

Years ago I was "Smoothing up" one of my fills, and my boss came yelling and screaming He said If I could not run the blade forward, then I should not run it at all:Banghead

Okay, I just couldn't resist revealing that our equipment supervisor, whose name was " Bill Sharkey " used to give anyone he caught backblading a serious talking to, explaining the evils of such action on blast rock in the open pit. All of the ground was hard rock and packed fill so he probably had a point in stressing the excessive wear on the back of the blade. BTW he was one of the best cat skinners I ever did see, and he could easily demonstrate anything he wanted you to do, unlike some of the "bosses" I have encountered who had no real concept of the machine capabilities. :nono

Buckethead · Oct 3, 2012

OzDozer said:
You've brought up a good point, though. Going forward with only a teensy amount of dirt in the blade, and trying to make a level cut,

You are always talking about "pushing", "cutting". When you are fine grading you are cutting and filling, whatever is necessary to put it on grade. Have you ever fine graded something like a road, a building pad, a parking lot?

OzDozer · Oct 3, 2012

No, I've never driven a dozer in my life! I wouldn't even know what levers to pull! I spend all my spare time hanging off the Cat dealers fence, staring at the big Cats, wondering what it must be like, to be in control of all that HP and tonnes of steel!! :tong

ben46a · Oct 3, 2012

Buckethead said:
You are always talking about "pushing", "cutting". When you are fine grading you are cutting and filling, whatever is necessary to put it on grade. Have you ever fine graded something like a road, a building pad, a parking lot?

The man probably has more years of seat time then you have in age! Lol I make sure to pay close attention to Oz, he knows what he's talking about, and is fussy and meticulous as all get out. I read tons of his posts on other forums as he's very willing to help and offer his advice on many earthmoving matters.

mitch504 · Oct 3, 2012

I Backdrag!

I spend a lot of time building and repairing roads for timber dealers w/ a D4e and a D21a.

These dealers simply buy the standing timber, and pay contract loggers to cut and haul it. They do not care one bit about the roads after the timber is out. Standard procedure is for the loggers cutter operator to cut the trees off at ground level where the road goes. The stumps are left in place. A lot of the stumps are actually 4-6" tall.

Depending on the situation, I will be just moving around the existing dirt, spreading a pile of dirt, or spreading 3"- rock. If you are going forward when you hit the 24" pine stump 6" tall under the rock, it will pitch you out of the seat, but, backblading, the blade will usually ride over it.

I'll take the extra wear on my blade and edges over the constant hard impacts on my machines and me.

vapor300 · Oct 3, 2012

So what happens when you hit the stump thats covered by an inch of loose gravel in a pickup going 20mph??? Push some dirt over the stump then put the rock down is what id do, rather have a bump in the road then a stump.

mitch504 · Oct 3, 2012

These stumps will be every few feet apart, if you try to go down these roads 20mph, you will have a wreck.

These roads are from 100' to 5000' long and are done as cheaply as possible

Who Backdrags?

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