Ok Tinkerer, help me. There are 3 gears in the housing the pump shaft comes from that all have to be lined up. Are those what you are talking about?
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
Injector Pump is off, Won't line up.
- Thread starter rutwad
- Start date
Guys, I would like to thank you all again for you knowledge, taking time to share it, and your patience with my ignorance.
I didn't know as much a few years back when I tried it as I do know. Last time I threw in the towel and it has sat for 4 years. My dad has asked me recently week after week if I talked to a mechanic friend about coming to help. It appears no one is coming and my dad would be elated to see the Case running again. He has gone to the pump shop now to have the old pump checked out. If it is good, I will install it. But the shaft dots and pump side lining marks still wont't match.
I didn't know as much a few years back when I tried it as I do know. Last time I threw in the towel and it has sat for 4 years. My dad has asked me recently week after week if I talked to a mechanic friend about coming to help. It appears no one is coming and my dad would be elated to see the Case running again. He has gone to the pump shop now to have the old pump checked out. If it is good, I will install it. But the shaft dots and pump side lining marks still wont't match.
Deeretracks
Senior Member
Have you ever determined that you are on #1 TDC Comp? You say there is a mark on the flywheel for TDC correct? Bar the engine over until you are on the mark and as long as both rockers are loose on #1 you are on the comp stroke. If you cannot find exact tdc with the flywheel you can use the wire through the injector hole as suggested before. If at that point the pump still won't go on then you have timing issues with the geartrain.
Somehow, someway, this backhoe will run again!
I've always loved equipment. For as far back as I can remember, the left fender over the rear tire was my seat any time daddy was using the backhoe. I started operating this backhoe very young. I can remember almost having to stand on the pedals to make the backhoe swing left or right. We didn't have a good way to transport it, so I always drove it. I created a habit that I noticed recently and laughed at myself. I was sitting on the very very front on the seat, almost the corner where the seat cushion thickness turns flat. I laughed remembering that I used to be so short that was the only way I could reach the pedals.
My dad has now had Parkinson's Disease for several years. He may could do just a little on the backhoe on one of his good days, but definitely not much. It just never crossed my mind how much it meant to him until recently when he would ask me almost every week if I heard from the mechanic that was coming out to fix it. I have given up on the mechanic and decided to do it myself. I am not a mechanic by any means, but trying to do this along with a ton of research has taught me a lot. Unfortunately there is still some I don't know, and this is apparently one of them. Without you guys, I would never attempt this. I wouldn't even have a clue what to do. I feel I am close and owe it all to everyone here.
THANK YOU AGAIN!!
I've always loved equipment. For as far back as I can remember, the left fender over the rear tire was my seat any time daddy was using the backhoe. I started operating this backhoe very young. I can remember almost having to stand on the pedals to make the backhoe swing left or right. We didn't have a good way to transport it, so I always drove it. I created a habit that I noticed recently and laughed at myself. I was sitting on the very very front on the seat, almost the corner where the seat cushion thickness turns flat. I laughed remembering that I used to be so short that was the only way I could reach the pedals.
My dad has now had Parkinson's Disease for several years. He may could do just a little on the backhoe on one of his good days, but definitely not much. It just never crossed my mind how much it meant to him until recently when he would ask me almost every week if I heard from the mechanic that was coming out to fix it. I have given up on the mechanic and decided to do it myself. I am not a mechanic by any means, but trying to do this along with a ton of research has taught me a lot. Unfortunately there is still some I don't know, and this is apparently one of them. Without you guys, I would never attempt this. I wouldn't even have a clue what to do. I feel I am close and owe it all to everyone here.
THANK YOU AGAIN!!
Deeretracks, I took the valve cover off first. Thinking that the 2nd valve from front was the intake, I turned the engine until that valve was closing. I stopped when it was very close to being completely closed since I was using the starter to turn the engine. I was scared another bump would go to far and the first (I assumed to be exhaust) valve would start to open.
So with that done I went to the right side and looked at the flywheel. With my eyes and limited vision I could not see exactly what each mark said, but nonetheless the marks were visible. In my mind, that confirmed that I was TDC on compression.
However, I now think that turning the engine 360 degrees would bring the flywheel marks back to their position and the N1 would be TDC, except it would be on exhaust stroke.
So with that done I went to the right side and looked at the flywheel. With my eyes and limited vision I could not see exactly what each mark said, but nonetheless the marks were visible. In my mind, that confirmed that I was TDC on compression.
However, I now think that turning the engine 360 degrees would bring the flywheel marks back to their position and the N1 would be TDC, except it would be on exhaust stroke.
Will this shortcut work? What if I turn the engine until N1 valves are both closed. Install the pump with shaft dot to dot. Try to crank. If this doesn't work remove pump. Turn engine one full rotation until both valves are closed again. Reinstall pump and try to crank.
Deeretracks
Senior Member
No, you need to find exact TDC to get the thing to run right.
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Rutwad, Like Deeretracks says, you have to get #1 TDC --- there is only one exception to that. That would be the timing for the pump that the manufacturer has specified in the shop manual. I think thepumpguy said 8 degrees BEFORE TDC. Quit worrying about the exhaust valve position. You said you saw timing marks on the fly wheel, get a hold of a fan blade and turn the engine in the correct rotation until you see O degrees or it may even have a steel ball pressed into the flywheel for instead of a zero. I am not familiar with your particular engine but what we are all telling you is the same for timing any motor.
willie59
Administrator
I'll say it again, to heck with all the guess work with the valves and marks. Even if a crappy wrench bender put the whole dang engine together wrong, unless he also got the cam totally wrong, that crank and #1 piston can only do one thing on compression stroke, that is, make compression, regardless of timing gears, tapered shafts, etc.
Yank the injector on #1. Put thumb over injector hole, gently bump engine until compression pressure pushes against your thumb, you are now dead nuts on compression stroke. Stick a wire down the injector hole until it hits top of the piston. Bar engine over until the piston no longer lifts wire, your damn close to TDC. Now check your marks on pump and flywheel, bar engine back a bit if necessary to spot marks.
Yank the injector on #1. Put thumb over injector hole, gently bump engine until compression pressure pushes against your thumb, you are now dead nuts on compression stroke. Stick a wire down the injector hole until it hits top of the piston. Bar engine over until the piston no longer lifts wire, your damn close to TDC. Now check your marks on pump and flywheel, bar engine back a bit if necessary to spot marks.
Tinkerer
Senior Member
I'll say it again, to heck with all the guess work with the valves and marks. Even if a crappy wrench bender put the whole dang engine together wrong, unless he also got the cam totally wrong, that crank and #1 piston can only do one thing on compression stroke, that is, make compression, regardless of timing gears, tapered shafts, etc.
Yank the injector on #1. Put thumb over injector hole, gently bump engine until compression pressure pushes against your thumb, you are now dead nuts on compression stroke. Stick a wire down the injector hole until it hits top of the piston. Bar engine over until the piston no longer lifts wire, your damn close to TDC. Now check your marks on pump and flywheel, bar engine back a bit if necessary to spot marks.
A big amen Willie ! The most foolproof way I know of. I would bet you have sparkplugs with the porcelain removed and a hose on them in your toolbox for gas engines.
willie59
Administrator
Is there any other way to air up tires?
OMG...Gas Engines! I hate those bloody things!
willie59
Administrator
Is there any other way to air up tires?
Gas engine. Take away the G and add an s to the end, that's what I think about them.
melben
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,030
- Location
- Williamsport, Pa
- Occupation
- Retired 50 Yrs with Case dealership
The valves are different on a diesel than the print shown a few posts back, the diesels have a pattern that makes the front valve a in. and the second valve a ex. and is that pattern clear back the engine i e-i e-i-e-i-e. Best advice, quit making the job difficult, install the pump dot to dot and it will be close enough to run, you can fine tune the timing after its running. None of the 180 degree out thing is relevant---Dot to Dot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If by that you mean there is fuel coming out of the return fitting on the pump, it's supposed to do that, part of it is internal leakage, but there is also fuel flow to cool the pump. Usually the return fuel flows back to the tank from the injector rail connection.
Whew, that's one relief. Thanks!
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Did you get it running ????